Originally Posted by hahahaha

They did another study a couple of years ago and again, ended up with just over 30,000. About a third were murders ..

Originally Posted by 1066

So, that gives around 10,000 murders a year = 27 murders per day.

That's OK then .. I thought it was a serious problem over there ..

Originally Posted by TouristTrap

Ah, the obnoxious stormer comes in under an assumed name again....how pathetic.

Originally Posted by Luma

gee I was reading some of his previous posts - no wonder he's changed name.

Originally Posted by hahahaha

Would you mind telling me what the hell you and ClapTrap are talking about?? He's still sore after I made him look like a fool yet I'm afraid you're both confusing me with someone else.

Originally Posted by TouristTrap

Yeah right.....and the moon is made from cheese.......

Originally Posted by hahahaha

Are you talking about this 'person' I'm supposed to be because I haven't got the slightest clue who you're talking about. This is funny.

Originally Posted by Sorchar

Have read through the whole thread with great interest and some sadness too. Although I was born in Scotland, my children are third generation South Africans/zimbabweans. We still have family in both countries, the Zimbabwean lot were kicked off their farm and are now looking at leaving. Health care, schooling and basic essential services are nowhere near acceptable levels. My elderly in laws are now in UK, FIL has cancer ans just couldn't get the treatment and drugs he needed. Uncle, aunt and their two kids live in the supposedly "better" part of Johanesburg within the walls of their fortress. He has his own business but is finding it hard to keep going due to many of the rules and regulations he has to comply with. He has the best state of the art alarm system and personal security, but they were still robbed. I cannot imagine what was going through their minds when the whole family were tied up and had guns pushed to their heads, even the kids. They lost just about everything, as all their vehicles were taken to haul the goods away. Aunty doesn't want to leave as she has a "good standard" of living. I cannot understand the merits of a fine house and pool when you live in constant fear of your life, and when it comes to your children, well, I would rather live here in a cardboard box but at least I can live a life of comparative freedom here. When my dogs bark or I hear a noise in the night I am not filled with terror in the knowledge of who may be coming through the door or window. My other elderly aunt and uncle were robbed at gun and knife point in their own little shop in broad daylight. By the grace of God all my rellies survived to tell the tale, they were the lucky ones. Many friends have not been so lucky, they were killed for small items of little value, or just because they were in the "wrong" place. I so much agree that Africa is one of the most beautiful and fantastic places to live, but things have changed from what it used to be. I don't know of any other African country that has survived their independence intact and has continued to grow and prosper and where one can lead a relatively safe and quiet life. There are I am sure very many people much more knowledgeable than I am when it comes to facts/statistics etc. I can only base my opinions on those things which I have personally experienced and from family members experiences. I don't do politics and am not rascist, I take everyone as they come. Many people I work with have come here to work from both SA and Zim and what they tell me fills me with great sadness. This is from mainly black people, some whites and other races. All of us just want the same, to live quiet and peaceful lives with our families without fear of violence and hatred from others. Sadly, this just isn't the case in Africa. Sure, there is crime here too, but not to the extent of what it is over there. I would have wished for nothing more than to raise my children in the land of their birth and to see them thrive and prosper with their country but this will never happen in their lifetime. I can only hope that those who remain and those who choose to go back are never touched by any of the crime that is so prevalent there. I hope everyone stays safe and finds their happiness, whatever that may mean to them.

Originally Posted by Esmeralda

Its relocation with work.... I'm still hoping for Dubai instead! I'm really unsure about SA.... its only just been thrown into the ring as an option. Still lots of research to do before making up my mind. Thanks for your reply. Would appreciate hearing about Woodmead area when you can.

Originally Posted by imries1

As a South African currently living in the UK, my husband, 4yr old son and I have had enough of the cold winters, the 70mile journey to work, the cost of living (yes we earn good salaries) and are basically missing home. We decided that we wanted to leave and even made a trip to NZ in june as we were considering moving there.

On our return we sat and asked ourselves why we wanted to go to NZ and every answer was that it is the same as SA. We decided that instead of nomading it around the world until we were happy, we were going to go home to good old SA.

Yes, there is a crime problem, but so does every single other country in the world have a problem - who can honestly say they have recently taken a stroll round the east end of london at night! Same applies to SA, be realistic and take your own safety seriously, don't venture into bad areas and just look after your well-being.

We have been touched by murder, my uncle was hijacked in his police car (he worked for SAP) and was shot dead at point blank range when slowing down with the hijackers in the car to avoid a major collision with another car. My brother was entrapped on a motorway at rush hour where spike were put in the road, all his tyres blew and he was robbed and they tried to murder him, he ran down the motorway for 2 miles and he ended up jumping in front of a car and stripping naked so that the occupants would realise that he wasn't armed, stop and help him get away from his attackers.

I was travelling back from Ixopo in KZN, now anyone who knows the area knows it is a bad area, the exhaust of the car i was driving fell off and i couldn't drive as there were sparks flying out the back. It was dusk and i was a woman alone, the only car who stopped for me were 2 black men in the notorious "black" taxi. They made me stand on the side of the road so i wouldn't be knocked down while they climbed under the car and cut the rubbers holding the exhaust on so I could at least get to safety. They then insisted on following me out the area to a main road to ensure i was safe. I didn't have a gun on me, they did and i know they would have used it if any harm had come to me.

I think a lot of expats LOVE to hear the bad side of SA as this gives them meaning as to why they left and re-affirms their decisions as the correct ones. Crime has no colour discreprancy and minority (yes minority) of white hating extremists in SA are just as likely to attack a black middle class family as a white middle class family.

10 years ago, if you went to any party in SA, there would be at least 3 people saying they were leaving. Now, every party I go to here, there are at least 50% saying they are planning their return to SA.

I think it is a bit sad how so many people "dis" SA and are so quick to tell anyone who is considering going home how stupid they are and just wait till they are a victim of crime before joining the "We hate SA club". SA needs more skilled people to go home, she has bred some of the most successful innovative people in the world (just look at our doctors and nurses). She needs them back to carry on building her economy which is going from strength to strength.

In short, we are leaving January 06 to go home, my husband is opening a business over there and will be taking on both black and white apprentices who are all crying out for skilled professions. We may not be making a massive diffence, but we are making a difference in those few families. Go on, slate me now, call me naive. Just remember, aren't we all allowed to make our own informed decisions that are right for us and our families.

God Bless Africa.

Originally Posted by darren hughes

panama you say, thanks for that, not a place i would have thought of.

Originally Posted by alanengineer

So as they say in the USA, stick a fork in me, I am done. I am applying to live and work in Australia where I have a fair chance based on by skills and expertise and not my skin colour. The country might be great but the only differences between the present government and the previous regime is the language spoken (policies are not much different, before they were in favour of the Afrikaner, now they are in favour of blacks but mainly Xhosa, like Tabo Mbeki), and they don't kill people who oppose them (kill their spirit maybe, but not their body!