Sally Redux

Part of the reason I always felt on edge over there.

Hotscot

Also the issue of allowing untraceable unvetted individuals into your home.

scrubbedexpat099

Not sure what you mean by covered by Insurance.

Workers Comp?

That has nothing to do with your personal liability.

amideislas

I guess things are the same everywhere, with a few differences.

Here, it isn't really a questionable practice, and they still charge a fortune anyway. Hire almost anything kind of work here, it's often priced based on some number of workers. But only a few actually do the work (these are usually the Algerian or Moroccan illegals, and occasionally the token "black" guy). Naturally, you get a substantial "discount" for cash. No VAT or receipt, of course.

Oh, and don't even think about mentioning this apparent inefficiency to the boss. ¡Esto no es Gran Bretaña, culo!

scrubbedexpat099

So you think every contractor background checks their employees!

Reminds me of an comment a Chef made to me if the drug tested everybody who worked in a kitchen there would be a lot of hungry people.

Also reminds me of a chat I had with a lady who ran a small landscaping business in Denver and her staffing issues

Hotscot

David. I can't control everything. I can only minimize risk as far as I can.

That's all. Nothing to take issue with I'm sure

My very real experiences are not yours

Sally Redux

The problem is that the 'white' guys put in tenders which are just completely stupid. I had one who wanted something like $20,000 (it may have been more, can't remember exactly) to do a tiny second bathroom, as against $4,000 by a Latino tradesman recommended by neighbours (ie I didn't pick him up outside Home Depot). And whoever puts the bid in, the same guys are doing the actual work.

I would like to see a lot more clarity and regulation myself, as I agree there are serious health & safety and liability issues.

At the end of the day, the Latino guys are superb workers.

Steve_

Because if it's under-the-table, they're not on the payroll, so the insurance doesn't cover them.

Steve_

I think this is more a discussion about dodgy contractors than illegal aliens. There are loads of contractors out there who are cash only, don't pay taxes, cut corners, etc. Hiring illegal aliens is purely incidental.

Hotscot

That is correct but the dodgy contractors are able to undercut legitimate businesses because they tend to use illegals. Certainly here in SoCal.

And I know when I'm paying big for critical services that involve propane, electrics, plumbing I want people who are fully covered bonded/insured/qualified/vetted/traceable/accountable/authorised etc...

As opposed to those who aren't.
(Does anyone actually disagree with this point?)

Wherever they hail from.

But hey, maybe it's just me who likes that peace of mind

(In fact my original point was stipulating that a contractor should use legal workers because of the very real risks involved in using illegal workers. That's all. Legal or illegal. Nothing to do with race.)

scrubbedexpat099

Do not know what fully covered means.

Bonded I doubt many individuals require bonds. I had one due to Fed money. Real pain.

Insured. Well that is primarily to protect them not you.

Qualified. In my county it is an open book test for Contractors....


Vetted by whom? That surely is something you do before employing somebody.

The others seem subjective.

Hotscot

Minutiae, Boiler.
You know fine well the general point I'm trying to make.

And that is, to minimise risk to the client it is best to use workers who are qualified to do the job and have legal authorisation to work on the job, otherwise insurance cover doesn't apply.

And that is also the position of the State Contractors Board.
Who am I to argue with State Law in this regard?

scrubbedexpat099

Sally said it.

In Colorado if you have lead paint you can as a home owner did but if you use a Contractor they need have done the course bought the equipment paid the license fees etc etc.

For many people 20k is not an option. Government takes it to extremes and knocks out the middle.

Steve_

Plus there is a federal law that makes it a crime for you not to do it, 8 CFR 274a.

I've seen so much s--t in the years I worked in construction that I have to say the legal presence of the workers was way down the list. I dare say anyone using them was scratched off the list of subcontractors long before it became an issue. Where's the invoice, what's your VAT number, where's your CIS certificate, are you CORGI registered, have you completed the relevant HSE courses, etc.

I do recall people telling me tales of ye olde days where Indian navvies would show up, etc. but that's all in the past. Without CIS certificates and NI numbers you're aren't getting a job with any respectable company.

I suppose the real question is whether the quality of construction work in Europe is better or worse than it is in North America... I'll leave you all to ponder that one.

Hotscot

Ok, and I'm not arguing here but I learned a lot during that time.

One guy does the job cheap, but incorrectly/poor quality, and he takes off. Or just tells you to eff off.

One guy is more expensive, but he has offices, phone, email, overheads...and very importantly..he has the legally required Surety Bond, which allows you to go after a third party, the Surety Bond company, to get a refund within a certain amount.
In addition he has a Contractors License, in which case the Contractors Board will take on an investigative case on your behalf. All of these elements of course cost to provide.

Sure in the latter case he costs more. But in my opinion the peace of mind is worth it, especially if the job involves a certification requirement to work on critical aspects of the project.