Other side of the coin...
Jan 9th 2007, 8:10 pm
#196
Ex BE ***** Addict
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 3,770
Re: Other side of the coin...
Your delivery is poor and I can't quite make out if you're a troll or not. But here's the problem Jamie. You're debating with people who have llived/do live in the place you are intending to move to and they (I) have found it wanting for whatever reason.
You're stating things that you hope to be true (and may indeed become so for you) but we're stating things that we KNOW to be true, as it applies to our own experience, of course YMMV.
You seem desperate to counter any negative comments about Oz. I've lived in Sydney a long time, and can tell you this. Out of all the mistakes, misconceptions etc people have about Oz, here is the biggest.
The experience most people have of the heat is an annual two weeks in Ibiza or somewhere. Now it can hot there, but what is missing is the daily drudgery. ie, when you're on holiday you are less likely to be wearing a shirt and tie, dragging kids around in a car or running for a bus. Add in that both major metropolitan cities are way more crowded than your average English city (London excepted) due to job concentration, and that heat starts to take it's toll. Throw in the weekly shopping, fighting for a car park and general draining effect that the heat produces, and it suddenly becomes not so attractive.
Along with this goes the fact most Britons fail to recognise the difference between 'nice and warm' and 'stinking hot'. You need to experience this to appreciate the difference. After 18 yrs I'm less heat tolerant than I was 10 yrs ago, and my triathlon and cycle training have suffered badly due to it.
The title of your thread is The Other Side of the Coin, that equally applies to here.
You seem to be looking for affirmation of your decision. You're more likely to find solace in the Godzone forum than here. People here are not stupid Jamie they've done their research on moving back and weigh up all the issues. You say some people move back then remember why they left in the first place, and that's true, but it applies to Oz as well (as in my case, I've ping ponged, and will move back to the UK again, hopefully soon when my non English/non Australian wife is ready).
If your really determined to make it here than use the forum here and our experience to learn from, not criticise and counter, because right now, until you've lived here, you have no idea what you're on about.
You're stating things that you hope to be true (and may indeed become so for you) but we're stating things that we KNOW to be true, as it applies to our own experience, of course YMMV.
You seem desperate to counter any negative comments about Oz. I've lived in Sydney a long time, and can tell you this. Out of all the mistakes, misconceptions etc people have about Oz, here is the biggest.
The experience most people have of the heat is an annual two weeks in Ibiza or somewhere. Now it can hot there, but what is missing is the daily drudgery. ie, when you're on holiday you are less likely to be wearing a shirt and tie, dragging kids around in a car or running for a bus. Add in that both major metropolitan cities are way more crowded than your average English city (London excepted) due to job concentration, and that heat starts to take it's toll. Throw in the weekly shopping, fighting for a car park and general draining effect that the heat produces, and it suddenly becomes not so attractive.
Along with this goes the fact most Britons fail to recognise the difference between 'nice and warm' and 'stinking hot'. You need to experience this to appreciate the difference. After 18 yrs I'm less heat tolerant than I was 10 yrs ago, and my triathlon and cycle training have suffered badly due to it.
The title of your thread is The Other Side of the Coin, that equally applies to here.
You seem to be looking for affirmation of your decision. You're more likely to find solace in the Godzone forum than here. People here are not stupid Jamie they've done their research on moving back and weigh up all the issues. You say some people move back then remember why they left in the first place, and that's true, but it applies to Oz as well (as in my case, I've ping ponged, and will move back to the UK again, hopefully soon when my non English/non Australian wife is ready).
If your really determined to make it here than use the forum here and our experience to learn from, not criticise and counter, because right now, until you've lived here, you have no idea what you're on about.
Jan 9th 2007, 8:15 pm
#197
Ex BE ***** Addict
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 3,770
Re: Other side of the coin...
We have lived both sides now Jamie, as working citizens of both countries, opinions not based on holidays and relatives opinions. So in summary I think we who have been there, seen it, done it are better placed to judge what's best for ourselves. Sometimes it might sound like I'm bitter but when I had my rose tints on to come here I probably sounded bitter about the UK. Now I have an advantage over you and your simplistic view. I've tried both and now know for certain which one I prefur. You on the other hand only really know one place and are guessing the rest whilst trying to second guess us that want to return.
Jan 10th 2007, 4:54 am
#198
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Thread Starter
Joined: Nov 2006
Location: RUGBY W MIDLANDS
Posts: 157
Re: Other side of the coin...NORTHERNBIRD
First of all, thankyou to all the posters in this thread who genuinely wanted to offer impartial, constructive advice, re there experiences.
Message to NORTHERNBIRD (TOANDFRO, etc...)
When you replied to my inital post (see above) I thought you were just giving me the benefit of your experience on THIS PARTICULAR forum and didn't want to get involved.
However as the thread progressed, I can only assume because of your initial reluctance to get involved, you were biding your time and waiting for the rest of your CLIQUE to wade in, in support. See, this thread has taught me that's what happens on MBTUK, ie you all gang up and STAMP DOWN on(TRY to in my case) any hint of a +Aus/-UK opinion. (Somebody, who will remain nameless pm'd me last night to warn me this would be the case, but by which time I had already worked it out for myself!)
Your painstaking effort to prove me wrong re house prices etc(until you realised we don't need a 5 bed mansion) was the clincher, although the "RUDE AWAKENING "comment was a very close 2nd, ie VERY SAD. However, it is only natural I suppose, to be anti when you have had a bad experience for whatever reason.
Now I know what I am about to say is like waving a cricifix in front of a vampire, but as strange as it may sound, WE ARE CORRESPONDING WITH A NUMBER OF PEOPLE WHO ARE GENUINELY HAPPY AND CONTENT WITH THERE LIFE IN AUS.
Maybe I should invite them on to "Even up the odds?" and then watch you all vanish VERY quickly. Only joking, or am I ?
At the end of the day, each to there own as a butcher who lived in a poor area of the UK and shopped at Netto WILL have a different perspective of Aus to a banker who lived in a leafy suberb of Herts who shopped at Marks & Spencer.
By the way, where I live there are THOUSANDS of East Europeans flooding in all using the roads, hospitals, etc and there is NOTHING we can do about it (Aus are a TAD more selective, ie trades, etc) do you think this is a good policy, then?
My partner heard the following conversation the other day in the post office:-
"NO, YOU NEED TO INSURE YOUR CAR BEFORE TAXING "
(3 Polish) "ME NO WANT INSURANCE, JUST TAX..."
.."BUT...."
(3 Polish walk out.)
My partner has been told she needs to learn POLISH as 50% of the customers are POLISH! Shouldn't it be the other way round? I could go on and on, but thats the REALITY of my small market town where I live now. Believe you me alot has changed here in the last few years..and not for the better.
Despite what you think, I DID take constructive comments on board, and am not as blinked pro Aus as you think. We are taking this move VERY SERIOUSLY as it is MASSIVE for us and I think A POSITIVE OUTGOING ATTITUDE helps!(NOT to be confused with rose tinted, etc, etc).
Anyway, the fact that I have ruffled a few feathers speaks volumes, watch this space, because as Arnie said, I'LL BE BACK!!
Message to NORTHERNBIRD (TOANDFRO, etc...)
When you replied to my inital post (see above) I thought you were just giving me the benefit of your experience on THIS PARTICULAR forum and didn't want to get involved.
However as the thread progressed, I can only assume because of your initial reluctance to get involved, you were biding your time and waiting for the rest of your CLIQUE to wade in, in support. See, this thread has taught me that's what happens on MBTUK, ie you all gang up and STAMP DOWN on(TRY to in my case) any hint of a +Aus/-UK opinion. (Somebody, who will remain nameless pm'd me last night to warn me this would be the case, but by which time I had already worked it out for myself!)
Your painstaking effort to prove me wrong re house prices etc(until you realised we don't need a 5 bed mansion) was the clincher, although the "RUDE AWAKENING "comment was a very close 2nd, ie VERY SAD. However, it is only natural I suppose, to be anti when you have had a bad experience for whatever reason.
Now I know what I am about to say is like waving a cricifix in front of a vampire, but as strange as it may sound, WE ARE CORRESPONDING WITH A NUMBER OF PEOPLE WHO ARE GENUINELY HAPPY AND CONTENT WITH THERE LIFE IN AUS.
Maybe I should invite them on to "Even up the odds?" and then watch you all vanish VERY quickly. Only joking, or am I ?
At the end of the day, each to there own as a butcher who lived in a poor area of the UK and shopped at Netto WILL have a different perspective of Aus to a banker who lived in a leafy suberb of Herts who shopped at Marks & Spencer.
By the way, where I live there are THOUSANDS of East Europeans flooding in all using the roads, hospitals, etc and there is NOTHING we can do about it (Aus are a TAD more selective, ie trades, etc) do you think this is a good policy, then?
My partner heard the following conversation the other day in the post office:-
"NO, YOU NEED TO INSURE YOUR CAR BEFORE TAXING "
(3 Polish) "ME NO WANT INSURANCE, JUST TAX..."
.."BUT...."
(3 Polish walk out.)
My partner has been told she needs to learn POLISH as 50% of the customers are POLISH! Shouldn't it be the other way round? I could go on and on, but thats the REALITY of my small market town where I live now. Believe you me alot has changed here in the last few years..and not for the better.
Despite what you think, I DID take constructive comments on board, and am not as blinked pro Aus as you think. We are taking this move VERY SERIOUSLY as it is MASSIVE for us and I think A POSITIVE OUTGOING ATTITUDE helps!(NOT to be confused with rose tinted, etc, etc).
Anyway, the fact that I have ruffled a few feathers speaks volumes, watch this space, because as Arnie said, I'LL BE BACK!!
Last edited by CHELSEAJAMIE; Jan 10th 2007 at 6:46 am.
Jan 10th 2007, 6:09 am
#199
BE Site Lead
Joined: Aug 2004
Location: MA, USA
Posts: 92,174
Re: Other side of the coin...NORTHERNBIRD
Despite what you think, I DID take constructive comments on board, and am not as blinked pro Aus as you think. We are taking this move VERY SERIOUSLY as it is MASSIVE for us and I think A POSITIVE OUTGOING ATTITUDE helps!(NOT to be confused with rose tinted, etc, etc).
And if your not single, you really have to have a strong relationship for going because it can and does add a lot of strain to the relationship at times, especially when you have parents that are elderly, any relations that you might be close to, or friends, it can be very tough to see them get sick/die and not be able to be there for them or to attend funerals...being in Oz, makes it all that much harder on your spirits and financially just because of the distance involved and again when you have kids for the same reason.
My best advice, discuss the down side to things and what will be the final straw if one doesn't like it, how long will you both be willing to live it out both in terms of time and finances...trying to adjust to new work ethics and the way things are done, when you have clear goals and targets, it'll either help you see you through it, or help to know that that will be the final straw and you both agree to leave because if it does break the relationship, it'll make it so much harder...and you also don't want to end up stuck in a country that you don't like because you can no longer afford to move back to the UK or else where.
At the end of the day, it's your life and you can only do what you think best for you and yours, but do consider your friends/family and what really is important in life. Whether you like what people have said or not, they have experienced it.
Jan 10th 2007, 6:26 am
#200
Forum Regular
Thread Starter
Joined: Nov 2006
Location: RUGBY W MIDLANDS
Posts: 157
Re: Other side of the coin...NORTHERNBIRD
Doing your research is a good thing, and at the end of the day, it's going to be an adventure, and whatever happens, you'll say you tried, but you ought to also realise that your reasons for going should be more than what is crap about the UK, if your reasons are for a different lifestyle (not necessarily better, but different), to experience something new, for better job opportunities, family, then you'll probably enjoy it, but if your main reason is because you think the UK is going to the dogs, you might be very surprised.
And if your not single, you really have to have a strong relationship for going because it can and does add a lot of strain to the relationship at times, especially when you have parents that are elderly, any relations that you might be close to, or friends, it can be very tough to see them get sick/die and not be able to be there for them or to attend funerals...being in Oz, makes it all that much harder on your spirits and financially just because of the distance involved and again when you have kids for the same reason.
My best advice, discuss the down side to things and what will be the final straw if one doesn't like it, how long will you both be willing to live it out both in terms of time and finances...trying to adjust to new work ethics and the way things are done, when you have clear goals and targets, it'll either help you see you through it, or help to know that that will be the final straw and you both agree to leave because if it does break the relationship, it'll make it so much harder...and you also don't want to end up stuck in a country that you don't like because you can no longer afford to move back to the UK or else where.
At the end of the day, it's your life and you can only do what you think best for you and yours, but do consider your friends/family and what really is important in life. Whether you like what people have said or not, they have experienced it.
And if your not single, you really have to have a strong relationship for going because it can and does add a lot of strain to the relationship at times, especially when you have parents that are elderly, any relations that you might be close to, or friends, it can be very tough to see them get sick/die and not be able to be there for them or to attend funerals...being in Oz, makes it all that much harder on your spirits and financially just because of the distance involved and again when you have kids for the same reason.
My best advice, discuss the down side to things and what will be the final straw if one doesn't like it, how long will you both be willing to live it out both in terms of time and finances...trying to adjust to new work ethics and the way things are done, when you have clear goals and targets, it'll either help you see you through it, or help to know that that will be the final straw and you both agree to leave because if it does break the relationship, it'll make it so much harder...and you also don't want to end up stuck in a country that you don't like because you can no longer afford to move back to the UK or else where.
At the end of the day, it's your life and you can only do what you think best for you and yours, but do consider your friends/family and what really is important in life. Whether you like what people have said or not, they have experienced it.
Jan 10th 2007, 6:52 am
#201
Account Closed
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 14,188
Re: Other side of the coin...NORTHERNBIRD
Message to NORTHERNBIRD (TOANDFRO, etc...)
When you replied to my inital post (see above) I thought you were just giving me the benefit of your experience on THIS PARTICULAR forum and didn't want to get involved.
However as the thread progressed, I can only assume because of your initial reluctance to get involved, you were biding your time and waiting for the rest of your CLIQUE to wade in, in support. !
When you replied to my inital post (see above) I thought you were just giving me the benefit of your experience on THIS PARTICULAR forum and didn't want to get involved.
However as the thread progressed, I can only assume because of your initial reluctance to get involved, you were biding your time and waiting for the rest of your CLIQUE to wade in, in support. !
Being lumped in as part of a Moving Back clique will make her day.
For your info Jamie, Northernbird would generally be considered as one of the more pro Australian posters. I think she just got hacked off with your unbending, know-it-all, attitude.
Jan 10th 2007, 7:01 am
#202
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Oct 2006
Location: lincoln
Posts: 1,871
Re: Other side of the coin...NORTHERNBIRD
Northernbird is going to love this !! :scared:
Being lumped in as part of a Moving Back clique will make her day.
For your info Jamie, Northernbird would generally be considered as one of the more pro Australian posters. I think she just got hacked off with your unbending, know-it-all, attitude.
Being lumped in as part of a Moving Back clique will make her day.
For your info Jamie, Northernbird would generally be considered as one of the more pro Australian posters. I think she just got hacked off with your unbending, know-it-all, attitude.
But he is currently living in the uk.
Not saying that everyone has to agree but this is how HE feels living in the uk.
The same as other's disagree with him when he mention's oz and they live there and he does not xxxx
Jan 10th 2007, 7:08 am
#203
Account Closed
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 14,188
Re: Other side of the coin...NORTHERNBIRD
I don't disagree with him... if he thinks the UK is crap and wants to leave that's his choice. I think what put peoples back up was that he really doesn't want to hear any of the possible down side to his move. That's fair enough, I can understand why he needs to re-enforce his decision to himself.... so why spend all his time in the one part of the board where his attitude could have been designed to piss people off?.
Jan 10th 2007, 7:21 am
#204
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Oct 2006
Location: lincoln
Posts: 1,871
Re: Other side of the coin...NORTHERNBIRD
I don't disagree with him... if he thinks the UK is crap and wants to leave that's his choice. I think what put peoples back up was that he really doesn't want to hear any of the possible down side to his move. That's fair enough, I can understand why he needs to re-enforce his decision to himself.... so why spend all his time in the one part of the board where his attitude could have been designed to piss people off?.
I think everyone should be nice to each other, and help one another.
I know sometimes that is not possible to agree, but sometimes i do believe we should bite tongues. for the sake of the nastiness that sometimes does occur on this forum.
I have found that out before on here.
Jan 10th 2007, 7:36 am
#205
Account Closed
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 14,188
Re: Other side of the coin...NORTHERNBIRD
Hi,
I think everyone should be nice to each other, and help one another.
I know sometimes that is not possible to agree, but sometimes i do believe we should bite tongues. for the sake of the nastiness that sometimes does occur on this forum.
I have found that out before on here.
I think everyone should be nice to each other, and help one another.
I know sometimes that is not possible to agree, but sometimes i do believe we should bite tongues. for the sake of the nastiness that sometimes does occur on this forum.
I have found that out before on here.
Jamie is coming to this board for one reason only, the fight. He said as much in his last post with the "I'll be back" routine. He has purposely picked the one board where his attitude will guarantee a verbal punch-up. All the information he claims to be seeking could just as easily be obtained from the Barbie, where he would be welcomed as the Prodigal Son, who has seen the light and is coming to the Promised Land.
He is here to argue... and to be honest, just as long as everybody realises what he is up to I don't have an issue with it. Perhaps he can even bring his 'gang' with him, like he said he would.
Maybe I should invite them on to "Even up the odds?" and then watch you all vanish VERY quickly. Only joking, or am I ?
Last edited by iamthecreaturefromuranus; Jan 10th 2007 at 9:10 am. Reason: 'cos I can't spell for toffee !!
Jan 10th 2007, 8:00 am
#206
Forum Regular
Thread Starter
Joined: Nov 2006
Location: RUGBY W MIDLANDS
Posts: 157
Re: Other side of the coin...NORTHERNBIRD
Hi,
I think everyone should be nice to each other, and help one another.
I know sometimes that is not possible to agree, but sometimes i do believe we should bite tongues. for the sake of the nastiness that sometimes does occur on this forum.
I have found that out before on here.
I think everyone should be nice to each other, and help one another.
I know sometimes that is not possible to agree, but sometimes i do believe we should bite tongues. for the sake of the nastiness that sometimes does occur on this forum.
I have found that out before on here.
Jan 10th 2007, 8:01 am
#207
Forum Regular
Thread Starter
Joined: Nov 2006
Location: RUGBY W MIDLANDS
Posts: 157
Re: Other side of the coin...NORTHERNBIRD
Jan 10th 2007, 8:05 am
#208
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Joined: Nov 2006
Location: RUGBY W MIDLANDS
Posts: 157
Re: Other side of the coin...NORTHERNBIRD
We probably should all be nice to each other... but that's not the way of the World, is it?.
Jamie is coming to this board for one reason only, the fight. He said as much in his last post with the "I'll be back" routine. He has purposly picked the one board where his attitude will guarantee a verbal punch-up. All the information he claims to be seeking could just as easily be obtained from the Barbie, where he would be welcomed as the Prodigal Son, who has seen the light and is coming to the Promised Land.
He is here to argue... and to be honest, just as long as everybody realises what he is up to I don't have an issue with it. Perhaps he can even bring his 'gang' with him, like he said he would.
Maybe I should invite them on to "Even up the odds?" and then watch you all vanish VERY quickly. Only joking, or am I ?
Jamie is coming to this board for one reason only, the fight. He said as much in his last post with the "I'll be back" routine. He has purposly picked the one board where his attitude will guarantee a verbal punch-up. All the information he claims to be seeking could just as easily be obtained from the Barbie, where he would be welcomed as the Prodigal Son, who has seen the light and is coming to the Promised Land.
He is here to argue... and to be honest, just as long as everybody realises what he is up to I don't have an issue with it. Perhaps he can even bring his 'gang' with him, like he said he would.
Maybe I should invite them on to "Even up the odds?" and then watch you all vanish VERY quickly. Only joking, or am I ?
Jan 10th 2007, 8:06 am
#209
Account Closed
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 14,188
Re: Other side of the coin...NORTHERNBIRD
Give me a break !!
You are not in the slightest bit interested in what anybody posts here... you are here to cause trouble and start arguments... if you weren't you would simply move to the Barbie, tell everybody you think Oz is great and wait for the backslapping to start.
You are not in the slightest bit interested in what anybody posts here... you are here to cause trouble and start arguments... if you weren't you would simply move to the Barbie, tell everybody you think Oz is great and wait for the backslapping to start.
Jan 10th 2007, 8:11 am
#210
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Joined: Oct 2006
Location: lincoln
Posts: 1,871
Re: Other side of the coin...
Hey can everyone kiss and make up. I hate seeing people fight over a load of poo