ElizabethK

I believe that when you add up the total cost of living in USA v UK, there really isn't much difference between the two. But to say that £100k in the UK means you have to live a relatively rough lifestyle I find very hard to swallow!

I think that you have already decided you want to live back in USA, but please make provisions for the fact your wife WILL be very homesick and will likely want to travel back and forth to the UK at least once or twice a year.

The weather certainly is better, so for that reason alone (if that's what's making you so unhappy in Morecambe) then the USA is certainly the place for you. Personally I'm going the other way this year (back to UK from US after 17years) and am actually quite looking forward to summers where I'm not constantly sweating buckets, feeling fat and water retentive with the gross humidity and dreading the monthly electric bill in excess of $350 due to the A/C running constantly.
Good luck whatever you decide to do

erics_dad

Thanks for the post. I agree, paying loads of taxes and yet no basic health care system without paying $100s/mo. is crazy. The NHS is far from perfect but if it's something minor, it's brilliant (despite my local hospital here being pretty dire to be honest).

I went for years w/o health care in CA, particularly when I went to Uni (total of ~8 years), and just lucky I never got seriously ill or broke something lol.

After all the great replies/feedback, I'm honestly reconsidering a move back to CA/the US...at least any time soon. As far as Morecambe, I do prefer southern England so maybe somewhere on the southern (SE?) coast would be good. Only really been to Devon and as far South East as Bournemouth. Just feels more "modern" down there and based on weather, I DO think it's better than the NW.

I know a guy who moved from Sheffield to Morecambe about 6 months ago and he says he's miserable at the weather here!

Anyway, resigned for the moment to stay put....but definitely have my sights set on moving south if we do stay. Too expensive to just "up and move" right now.

erics_dad

Good point. I've only ever lived in California...grew up there until I was 36 when I moved here 9 years ago. Don't need to be near any "hubs" per se as I work on the computer from home. However, I am a bit "picky" based on places I've lived which I realize doesn't help

Places I'd consider moving to (I guess I prefer beach towns):

- Santa Cruz
- Santa Barbara
- Maybe OC as I have family down in San Clemente
- Maybe Costa Mesa/SD as some have mentioned based on weather, stuff to do, etc.

But again, sounds a bit pipedream-ish for me at the moment because my "online income" is far from consistent.

As far as my wife and her family, unfortunately both her parents are gone and while she has 2 sisters here in town, they're both so busy with their families we all hardly see each other. I do know what you're saying though and yes, trips from CA to Morecambe aren't cheap.

Hopefully the UK economy does change soon but it doesn't look good for the near future. One of my "issues" is the money I earn online is always paid in USD$ so if I make $5k/mo then that's only roughly £3,200/mo. Set aside 30% for taxes you're then looking at ~£2,200 (btw, that's in today's CURRENT exchange rate which is the lowest in 3 years or so). Right now, £2,200/mo can't even pay all my bills...granted I have a mortgage, car payment, some CC bills etc., a growing boy, etc.

One thing that really gets me is when I moved to Morecambe in 2004, a "decent" job paid £10-£12k/pa...at almost a 2/1 exchange rate at the time, that was around maybe $22,000/pa which BACK THEN was horrible IMO! lol

Guess what a "decent" income is, in this town, nearly a decade later? Around £10-£12k/pa!! With exchange rates at ~1.5/1 that's around $18,000/pa in the States. Cost of living compared to wages here is high IMO and that's why A LOT of Brits I've met (or my wife knows) literally say "I'd be better off on benefits than working" and that's about right.

Anyway, making $5k/mo can be consistent for me so that's when I started wondering if $5k/mo (excluding taxes) could get me, my wife, and 4yr old son by in CA. Because wages are really bad in Morecambe, my wife can only earn around £900/mo unless she took on several jobs so I need to earn roughly £3k (after taxes) to just pay the bills...no real savings or anything. £3k after taxes in Morecambe is almost unheard of unless you own a brick-n-mortar business, are a solicitor/accountant or any other "fine" profession. Regular jobs, around here, forgettaboutit!

So, even if things turn around here (economy wise) that would probably just mean the Pound gets stronger against the Dollar (like 2/1 in 2005-07) and makes it even harder for me to make a liveable wage IMO.

Sounds like $60k/yr (before taxes) isn't all that great of a wage in CA/US anyway though. *sigh

erics_dad

Btw, just wanted to clarify my statement about £100k as "roughing it" lol. Obviously I'm exaggerating but...here's my POV.

1) Earn £100k before taxes. After £42k or so you go into the 40% tax bracket unless you become a Limited Co. (which I would as a self-employed if I earn anything over £45k).

2) Set aside a minimum of 25% taxes so £25k to HMRC in January PLUS 50% of £25k for next year's taxes so you'd better have £37.5k in January and another £12.5k in July...might as well set aside £50k(?!)

For example, 2011/2012 I had a taxable wage of ~£34k (~$50k) so this year I have to pay £15k in taxes (~£7.5 for my 2011/2012 earnings PLUS 50%, as HMRC "assumes" you'll earn the same the following year. I have to pay the other 50% in July.) So, while I could claim £34k, I had to save £15k in taxes which makes it £19k and that "got us by" as we don't live "fancy" or take lots of holidays...how can you on that wage? lol Btw, £34k taxable is OUTSTANDING for my area and there's NO WAY I could earn that other than my online business.

When I say £100k, I don't mean after taxes. If my numbers are right, then £50k/12 months isn't even £5k/mo and yes, if you live in a flat, no bills (mortgage, cc, etc.) then £50k/pa is a liveable wage IMO.

But if you have a mortgage, CC bills, car, etc. then £50k isn't great. It's not "living rough" of course but £100k pre-tax in the UK, to me, isn't a "great wage" unless you have no debts which most of us do.

Again, average yearly income in Morecambe, £10-£12k/pa! So, people end up doing cash-in-hand work (and not paying taxes) and/or live off benefits. It may be different in bigger cities down south but that's what it's like in my town.

erics_dad

Exactly! £30k/pa with no bills = relatively affordable lifestyle with the odd holiday here and there.

I personally don't know anyone in my town making £30k/pa other than myself lol. Not saying there aren't people here earning that, of course there are, if they're doctors, accountants, solicitors, etc. but the average job/wage (which I'd have to apply for) is around £10-£12k/pa which is not liveable IMO considering the COL.

erics_dad

Great point

Because kids start early here, my 4yr old son is already reading! He started school in September and if we moved to e.g. CA then I assume he'd have to wait at least a year for kindergarten and he'd be miles ahead of the avg. 4yr old in CA. I'm happy with my son in school at 4 so that IS in fact a consideration for us.

erics_dad

Thanks for that info JAJ. Yes, I lived in the US for 36 years (other than 3 months in France).

Sorry, British citizenship, not English (oops!)

erics_dad

Bink got it right. We bought our house for ~£150k in 2006 (at least 1.5 years before the "credit crisis" hit us here and before the housing bubble burst) and it's a mid-terrace. A detached, in this retirement town, would be at least £160k on up...even today!...depending on exact location, condition etc. Realistically though, you'd probably be looking at £180k on up for detached. There are plenty of houses in this town that go for £300k on up.

I don't get property prices here (Morecambe), I've always felt they were way over priced for what you get, the low paying jobs, lack of good shopping areas, lack of things to do, etc. etc.

Houses still cost roughly what we paid but I am pretty sure our house isn't valued the same since the credit crisis. So, we feel pretty "stuck" here. Houses also don't shift unless the sellers really drop the price (which most estate agents recommend but we know it's so they can make the sale!) and we can't afford to drop were we to put ours up for sale.

erics_dad

Hi Elizabeth, if you see my reply about £100k, you'll see what I mean. I meant pre-tax and it obviously depends on how many bills one has. No, not "rough" but not as good as one might think.

I've NOT already decided actually. This thread with all the great replies have helped me come to a mini-epiphany lol...if there's such a word/phrase. Because it's sounding like moving the CA would be pretty expensive, including cost of living, so I don't think I'm in a rush to move anywhere...let alone the US.

I don't think my wife would get as homesick as you say. I've been here 9 years and I don't go back 1-2 times a year. I think it depends on the person. My wife lived in Spain for 9 years and was depressed when she moved back here! Honestly. But, I do know what you're saying and I can't speak for her.

CA has dry heat, PA has humid heat which I agree, even I'm not used to that and wouldn't like to live in humidity (personally).

Btw, England was just named the "Fat Man of Europe" - http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...of-Europe.html

I'm 3.5 stones heavier than when I moved here lol. Yes, the US still has more morbidly obese than the UK but because I don't get out as much due to bad weather (and working from home doesn't help any), I've never been fatter! lol However, maybe water retention is related to humidity, don't really know.

erics_dad

Sorry for all the replies everyone...just wanted to get back to some of you.

For the record, despite my "whingeing" about weather, COL, etc. I do love many things about England. Been here almost a decade, son born here, wife's English, etc. etc. It would probably feel foreign moving back to be honest!

Just thought since I earn in USD, weather of where I grew up (CA) means more of an outdoor lifestyle which I miss, cost of living, etc. that it would be worth getting some perspective on moving back to CA. Many of you have graciously offered your points of view...and for that, I am grateful

Beaverstate

The cost of living in California varies greatly, Brentwood or Susanville...etc.etc.

Elvira

Hiya, Dad of Eric - I though you might be interested in the article mentioned in this thread, and the subsequent discussion:

http://boards.fool.com/budget-exerci...sort=whole#top

the below link demonstrates in charts how median income families ($50K/yr.) - and certainly those with incomes below the median - simply do not have any discretionary income if they spend a typical amount on mandatory living expenses.

Scrolling down reveals a very realistic ordinary budget for a family in a no-income-tax state that doesn't have to purchase health insurance, revealing that there is precious little left over for discretionary spending. Without employer-provided insurance, the same family would have zero discretionary cash. Those whose states impose income tax would be running a deficit if they also had to buy insurance.

http://www.mybudget360.com/going-bro...0-the-story-of...

The same piece includes charts breaking out incomes from the top 25% to the top .1%, graphically displaying the GINI coefficient on related US maps.

I would like to see how the discretionary cash figures might change in the family has a couple of teenage boys with bottomless stomachs and/or a couple of gas-guzzling cars.

As an ex-California resident I can testify that the cost of living is high - even outside the obviously expensive places like Silicon Valley.

I'm obviously biased, but I'd vote with moving down South within the UK

scrubbedexpat099

I doubt if there is much difference in COL between CA and SE.

Bob

If you do have your sights on the US, but are more flexible and if you are able to work from home without meeting people, you do have more options.

COL, it is much lower if you were in Maine, the rather cold winters and humid summers are a bit extreme, so you'd have other issues to contend with, but you'd certainly be above the curve on your kind of money if you went to a average decent town, might be a struggle in Portland or further south, but the rest of the state shouldn't be a problem. If you like the coast, anywhere along Rt 1 from say Rockland, Rockport, Camden, Belfast, Searsport, Ellesworth and all the out to Bar Harbor would be worth a look in.

Rhode Island, also has a much lower COL. Not exactly my favourite place, but there's plenty of stuff to do in Providence and it has been getting nicer over the last few years. The gov is a complete fukwit and the state politics are especially dodgy though.

Mass, well if you're on the inside ring of I-495, it'll be more expensive and tougher the closer to Boston you get, but it's a lovely place out in western MA, plenty to do, great for families, so fairly affordable. Same weather issues to Maine though. Worth checking out Northampton and the area.

New Hampshire, it's a tax free state on salary/sales, but they hit you on property taxes, but it's not so bad a place and close enough to Boston and there are some lovely towns on the coast, Hampton, Portsmouth and the like, but also in a bit with Dover, Exeter etc.

Texas has been mentioned by others, so there are plenty of other options to consider. They'll all have their own pro/cons to think about but if you're a bit more flexible, you'll find far more options, especially if you aren't rooted to a spot because of a job or family.

vikingsail

Its just my input and I don't know what your tolerance levels are for neighbourhoods but the COL here in So. CA is fairly high. Especially for a family with children who will have health care costs (think $$ for monthly premiums, copays and prescriptions) to think about and as a s/e person those can get fairly high quickly. Getting close to a beach outdoor lifestyle is very expensive. Of course there are other areas in CA inland but they tend to be very very hot and very very cold depending on the seasons. For example:

A decent two bed place is going to be $1600 - 2000 pm
Utilities $300pm
cable $100pm
food = family $400/500 pm.
Car ? 200/400pm
Gas 200/300pm if your lucky.

So as you see it adds up fairly quickly. Note I have not put entertainment or clothes, holidays etc on there. A once yearly trip back to the UK for a family of four is going to be $4000 just in airfare on average = +300pm to save for and that is without any other expenses car hire presents, food etc.

People I see surviving with their heads above the water and enjoying life here are either single/dual income in the 100 - 130K bracket. Everyone else is just barely treading water, racking up the credit cards or really cutting back. I know that puts a lot of people in the just existing bracket but I believe it is the reality