erics_dad

Hi folks,

I literally just joined this forum because I figured I'd get some good insight from some of you kind folks here

I'll explain quickly (?) my situation and then what I'd like to ask.

First, my situation:

1) My wife is English and we live in the North West. We have a 4 year old son.

2) Our combined income is random as I'm self-employed and my income can seriously vary from year to year. Last year's taxable income (for me) was around £30k, my wife gets her taxes taken out automatically and her income is roughly £10k/yr taxable.

3) I moved here (Morecambe to be exact) in 2004 and the average yearly wage back then was £10,000/yr at a 2:1 £:$ ratio and almost 10 years on, it's still common to only make roughly £10k/yr in my area but obviously the GBP to USD is a lot lower the past 1-2 years.

The cost of living compared to wages is horrible and after almost a decade I don't see things improving anytime soon.

As far as my questions....

Firstly, before I ask, I realize several things such as:

** The NHS (despite its MANY inferior issues) is great for low/mid income families as we aren't required to have health insurance

** My son is already in school learning (and reading!) at age 4 instead of in the US starting kindergarten at age 6 etc.

With my self-employment earnings I get paid in USD, and the current conversion (roughly at the time of this post at $1.51 to £1 which is unusually low) I started thinking that my family and I might actually have a better quality of life back in the US. I don't know as I've not lived there for almost a decade.

I do NOT expect to be a homeowner in the US but overall, I feel the cost of living and weather would be better for me and my family but, would love to hear advice/comments to see what you all think.

For example, if I/we were to rent either a 2-bed apartment and/or a 2-3 bed house in California (I realize it depends where in CA) could $3,000-$5,000/mo be enough to live "comfortably"? If I work really hard (as my earnings are online) I could reasonably make $7-8,000/mo. But, even at $8,000/mo that's only about £5,200/mo in the UK and after taking all the taxes, paying NEXT year's income tax in advance to HMRC, etc. even £5,200/mo isn't much but $8,000/mo in the US is different....at least in my opinion. Yes?

At the moment, here in the North West we're paying:

- Gas/Electric = £115/mo or ~$174/mo
- Cable/internet/phone (combined) = £80/mo = ~$121

We're paying around $10/gallon for gas, TV tax, council tax (~£115/mo) which would more than pay for health insurance, etc. as well as overall the cost of living compared to the poor wages (in my part of the country anyway) I feel moving back to California would be cheaper for us.

What do you think? Can one live decent on roughly $60K+ year in California? I haven't looked into what my wife would have to apply for (e.g. green card or whatever).

Also, the weather sucks! Sorry, but for years I kept it quiet to myself because I thought I was just a "yank complaining" but I know lots of Brits who say they are tired of the crappy weather too lol. Growing up in California, living an "outdoor lifestyle" etc, I am TIRED of being indoors 99% of the time.

I DO like/love England in MANY respects (been here almost a decade, son was born here, etc.) but with the poor wages, high cost of living (petrol/food/gas-elec/council-tv taxes/etc.) I just wonder if moving back to the US would actually provide a better QUALITY of life.

Thanks for reading and look forward to replies.

Cheers

Scott

Michael

If you are going to be living in the SF bay area, LA/Orange county, or San Diego then rent of $3,000-$5000 per month will be about correct. However areas such as Sacramento and it's surrounding areas are significantly less likely below $2,000 per month for a fairly nice home such as the following at $1650 per month and another at $1995 per month plus most things are also cheaper than in the larger metropolitan areas.

http://www.trulia.com/rental/3050092...mento-CA-95834

http://www.trulia.com/rental/3032018...mento-CA-95818

Also I believe that kindergarten starts at 5 in most of California.

Bluegrass Lass

If you think £115 will cover the cost of health insurance in the US for a family of 3, you're mistaken. My husband has group insurance through his employer. His insurance premium is covered by his company, mine isn't. The monthly premium, just for me (no kids) is over $500/mo. It's even more if we had kids. The cheapest we've had it is probably around $250/mo.

erics_dad

Hi Michael,

Thanks for your reply. So, you're saying that RENT ALONE would be $3k-$5k/mo in those areas? Are we talking about renting HUGE 3-5 bedroom houses as opposed to apartments?

Based on that info, that means the average resident must earn at least $50-60k/year just to pay rent and taxes?

Seems a bit high to me personally but I'm out of the loop so maybe that's the reality. I do realize it depends on where in CA you live.

I know SF is expensive as I grew up in Mtn View and even there is probably pricey and SF itself is going to be VERY pricey. I also lived in (as mentioned, Pasadena), Santa Barbara, Santa Cruz, etc. and prefer those types of cities.

I would not like to live in Sacramento or even San Diego but, would prefer San Diego over Sac any day.

So, rent wise, say I wanted to live in south LA (Pasadena, Long Beach etc.) or even as far as San Diego, then a 2-bed apartment you're looking at $2,000/mo or more? Really?

Btw, what's petrol (gas) and electrics(gas/elect) typically cost in such areas as you don't have the crappy cold weather? While the rent may be higher, the cost of living altogether may be a lot less...hopefully

Thanks for the reply!

Scott

md95065

Take a look at craigslist to get some idea of rental prices - here are the results for Santa Cruz - http://sfbay.craigslist.org/scz/apa/ - on the first page I see prices ranging from $1300 - $1600 for one bedroom apartments to $4400 for a 4 bedroom house. Something in the range of $2,500 is typical for 2 or 3 bedrooms and about 1700 square feet.

erics_dad

Hi Bluegrass,

Wow, that's very expensive I admit. I went for YEARS without any health insurance (like most Yanks)...especially as I went through my Uni years. While the NHS is far from great, at least if I get sick I know I can go and make an appointment and get seen by a doctor (even if it's only for a mere 2 minutes). The NHS is FAR from perfect here and makes me nervous even going to the doctors here but, at least I don't need to pay $500/mo for the privilege. On the other hand, I DO pay for NHS privileges...through my taxes!

I know for a fact I never paid TV tax (BBC etc.) or Council Tax (even renters pay that here!) which could amount to £130/mo or ~$200/mo, depending on where you live, just for those 2 so if you factor that in and deduct them from health insurance (not to mention $10+/gallon for petrol then we're starting to get on even grounds.)

Another big factor, depending on where you live in the US, is the lifestyle or "outdoor" factor. I grew up in California. People say America is the fattest country in the world which is probably true. However, England is the fattest of Europe and I have never been heavier HERE than in California. So, lifestyle is another major factor. I'm at least 3 stones heavier here in the UK due to being indoors 99% of the time.

I think a lot of it has to do with living here in the North West. Morecambe is a crappy little town. There are TONS of crappy little towns in California. If you have lots of money and live in a beautiful town/house say in Devon or Bournemouth or wherever, then great...but up here in the NW it sucks. Same as in CA, I'd only live in certain parts of the State (as I've lived throughout CA and know where I'd live/not live).

Anyway, just trying to think of how to improve the lifestyle of my family. At the moment, unless you make AT LEAST £100,000/yr in the UK, you're living "rough"...sorry, but that's my experience. I can't imagine it's more difficult in the US despite the health insurance issue but maybe I'm wrong?

erics_dad

Hi md95065

Thanks for the suggestion of Craigslist. I forgot about Craigslist because here we don't really use it. I don't know if I'd move back to Santa Cruz (SC) per se but because I earn my living online, I suppose I could live anywhere in the world.

I did love SC when I lived there but then again, I was in my 20s, just graduated from Uni, was a "free spirit" etc. lol Now, I've got a wife, mortgage, child, etc.

I still think the cost of living in the US is cheaper than the UK. We have taxes up the wazoo (e.g. TV tax, council tax (total joke!), etc.) and pay at least $10/gallon for petrol...the most of ANY European country.

If a new laptop costs $500 in the US, it costs me £500 which is roughly $800 for the EXACT SAME PRODUCT! Again, even Brits complain about this and it drives me nuts! I feel sorry for Brits to get gauged like that. But, despite not being a Brit by birth, I live here and have to pay these outrageous prices!

So, again, just wondering if moving back to Cali, taking my lovely wife and son back with me, if we'd be better off on around $50k/year (before taxes) and wonder if my wife would have trouble working...not sure, have to look into that first.

I think I'd rather have an apartment in a so-so part of a "beach town" (san diego, santa cruz, santa barbara) than own a mortgage of our terraced house here in sh***y Morecambe with no job prospects, low wages at that, terrible weather, high prices (council tax, etc), living indoors 99% of the time, etc.

Can anyone relate?

Cheers

Michael

That is probably right.

As you know, in most of the metropolitan people drive a lot so it is hard to say what is the typical monthly petrol (gas) costs.

If you are around the bay area, the fog keeps the area cool so air conditioning is normally not necessary but the winters are cooler than the LA area. Costal area are cooler so again it is difficult to estimate gas/electric prices. In my case when I was living in a 2,100 sq ft townhouse in Fremont, my typical spring to fall utility cost was about $50-$80 per month but could hit as high as $300 per month during the winter during the coldest month.

Besides housing, almost everything else seems to be more expensive in California than most other states.

erics_dad

Michael,

Just wanted to say "thanks again" for the links to the properties for rent in Sac(?). I just clicked on them and they look a lot more "roomy" than what we have here. Not to mention the weather you get in Cali. Yes, in Sac you probably get much higher summer temps (I went to Uni in Chico...don't laugh!)

Again, you pay less for areas like Sac but you get more for the money. I'm sure you could get a 5-bed house for $150,000 in Montana if you didn't mind living in the "sticks". The point is, I DO think you have a better standard of living in the US than in the UK. At least compared to the North West, it's a joke living here. *sigh

Thanks again

Michael

It will take about 8-10 months for your wife to get an immigrant visa which makes her a legal permanent resident (green card holder) as soon as she enters the US and therefore can start looking for any job she desires immediately.

Your son should be a US citizen and you will need to get him a US passport.

erics_dad

Hi Michael,

Sorry, didn't see your reply before replying myself lol.

As far as petrol prices, I agree, you do tend to drive more in CA. However, as I work from home, my wife is the one who uses petrol. Our last car had only 5,000 miles in a year. That's pretty unusual but still, I'll take $3.50/gallon to $10/gallon any day!

$2k+ is typical I suppose because it's a landlord's market! Oh how I wish my mom would have listened to me back in 1985 when I said she should try to buy her own house in Mtn View! lol

My mom pays I think about $800/mo in Lompoc which I doubt you've heard of but back when she lived in Santa Clara (2 years ago) I think she paid $1200/mo for a 1-bed. Crazy.

HOWEVER...and here's the KICKER....if in the Bay Area (South Bay/Silicon Valley etc.) you can make $40,000+ then the rent is not so bad (rent only!). Here in the North West, rent can be as high as $800/mo for a one bed, poxy-ass crappy apartment BUT...you still gotta pay council tax (£115+/mo), you still gotta pay gas/elec (£100/mo), tv tax (£14/mo), etc. etc.

What you CAN GET AWAY WITH...unlike the US(???)...is claiming "benefits" which encourages people to work 16 hours per week or less because "I can make more if I didn't work at all"......just another reason this government isn't working!

The problem I have with this part of England (or England in general) is that the cost of living compared to the wages (same as when I moved here in 2004!!!) is pathetic.

So, if you're going to sacrifice so much of your life working, at least have nice weather (summer BBQs, swimming, walking, beach volleyball, etc.) rather than WORK WORK WORK, SIT SIT SIT....know what I mean? Brits are used to "sitting" but those I've met (90%+) who have travelled outside of GB know life is "out there" to be had...hence why so many move to Spain or OZ.

Anyway...still feel CA is better than (at least) the North West

erics_dad

Hi Michael

Again, great info you've provided whilst I've "vented" my frustrations lol. Thanks again.

So, while I need to do my own homework, you're saying:

1) Hypothetically, say we move to the US, my wife would need to wait 8-10 months to be able to apply for work? So, for 8-10 months she can't work at all, yes?

2) My son, despite being born in England, would automtically qualify for dual citizenship assuming I apply? I would naturally want him to keep his English citizenship but he automatically qualifies for US citizenship because I am American?

Thanks again

Scott

md95065

I think that it would be difficult given that you are talking about a family consisting of 2 adults and 1 child.

There are plenty of places in California where you definitely couldn't afford to live on that amount.

The advantage that you appear to have is that your work doesn't tie you to any particular location so you could pick a more remote (and, therefore, probably much cheaper) area in which to live. On $60k it would still require careful budgeting though.

md95065

No - it will take 8 - 10 months to get her the visa which will allow her to move to the US. When she enters the US with her immigrant visa she will immediately become a permanent resident and be able to work.

It's not a matter of "applying" - he already is a US citizen by virtue of being your son and a UK citizen by virtue of being born in the UK to a UK citizen (his mother). What you do need to do is to apply for a US passport for him.

Oh, and you will need to make sure that you are up to date with filing your US tax returns ...

erics_dad

Wow, that's crazy!

And to think when I moved to Morecambe in 2004 when the GBP was 2:1 (more or less) the average yearly wage was £10,000/yr that on $60,000 one would need "careful budgeting" today in the US.

Seriously? Despite England known for ridiculously high gas/elec monthly fees, petrol fees, council tax, tv tax, etc. that $60K (£40k) would require careful budgeting? Keep in mind, in the UK, they not only tax you on the £40k but the HMRC wants the tax for £40k UPFRONT for the following year as well (even if you don't earn £40k again) which is an even greater tax burden on the average self-employed person here.

Yes, I definitely know rent is ridiculous in CA, because of what my Mom tells me, but the rest of the cost of living (excluding health "insurance") seems much more realistic compared to the UK.