Michael

But that is medium family income (medium family income in the US is about $50K) so 50% of the families make less than that and 50% make more than that and there are a lot more families that don't have someone working as a high tech professional than do even though there are a lot of high tech professionals in the area.

I originally purchased my first home in Sunnyvale in 1972 for $48K and it would now sell for over $1 million. I purchased my townhouse in Fremont for $180K in 1981 and it sold for $815K 5 years ago. Mountain View is now considered a fairly expensive area (difficult to find a house under $1 million). Although prices have dropped over the past 5 years, the market is again heating up and the prices are starting to come back to where they were 5 years ago. It is the inland valleys that had the really big price drops over the past 5 years and still aren't recovering since investors drove up prices well beyond anything reasonable for those areas.

christmasoompa

It's more than enough with all of that, and if you really think you could only just survive on £100k without a mortgage etc, then I'm gobsmacked.

As I said above, we don't earn £100k a year (not going to give figures, but it's not close to that either), and we can afford a great life. We have a 6 bed Georgian farmhouse in Berkshire in 1.5 acres (yes, with mortgage!), 3 cars (hubby has a sports car that he uses in the summer months), our kids can do all the activities they want etc. Granted, we don't have any debt other than the mortgage and we're a long way off being able to afford things like private school or several holidays abroad a year, but we're certainly not struggling and are far from living a 'rough life' as you said above.

The wage you're on now is what my husband earnt for years whilst I was a stay at home mum, and we lived in Buckinghamshire then - we still managed a 4 bed detached house in the most expensive area of the country, a ski holiday plus another holiday every year and a nice life!

Have you looked at what you'd earn in London or the South East just out of interest? My husband would earn half of what he does now (he commutes in to London) if we moved elsewhere in the UK.

Again, not my experience at all. My children are outside in all weathers and we live a very active, outdoorsy lifestyle. Even if it's chucking it down with rain we'll still jump on bikes and go for a cycle (usually ending up at a nice pub with an open fire obviously!). I'm not from California though, so the weather doesn't bother me in the slightest and we just get out there and have fun.

fakey

I think its a bit weird you even have to ask. Given the choice of California or Morecombe I imagine 99% of people would choose California. And going by the themes you mention several times (weather, lifestyle) you already know what you want to do.

Im from London & live in New Jersey. I love London & dont even particularly love NJ- but it seems fairly clear to me which is better, and especially for my children. Between me & my (now ex) wife we make close to $100 k - & with health insurance/ mortgages etc definitely dont feel particularly well off. But in London imho it is more expensive & you make less money- imho.

But I think you already know what you want to do, which is go back to Ca. You just might have to do what everybody else does, which is work very hard to be able to afford it.

Bob

Things to consider....

Get UK citizenship first if you haven't as it'll be hard to move back again if you don't have it.

Cost of petrol is a bit redundant because you'll do far more miles here as you probably know, without much option for public transport. Plus cost of parking can be expensive in bigger cities. You're probably looking at close to $5 a gallon in the area you're looking at and even going nowhere can easily clock up 15K a year, just doing the grocery run and taking kids to playgroup/sport things.

Don't under estimate the cost of medical insurance, especially if you are self employed and have to get it privately, as well as the cost to actually use it - copays/deductibles etc. Having a kid makes it much more of a requirement, they're more likely to fall over and break an arm or so do something stupid.

South CA, the big utility is probably AC costs rather than heating, which can be pretty high I guess.

Padmapper is a good app/site to check out for rentals.

Biggest difference would be the hidden taxes in the US, stuff like property tax might set you back a few hundred bucks for a small family home in Maine, but be $15K in MA for the same sized home. Then there are the additional costs with school, those afterschool programs aren't cheap, childcare etc, etc.

The US generally isn't cheaper as a place to live than the UK, it's about the same, just different expenses. Some parts are cheaper, such as Maine or Texas, but they all have their own costs that would be different still.

Also as you've been away for so long, you'll probably be starting next to scratch on the credit history front, which means everything will be more expensive, so expect to pay $1K per six months of car insurance and be happy if you pay less, expect to have to put down a deposit on all your utilities etc.

As for the weather. I found I did far more outdoors in the UK than I do here, because the weather is far to extreme, but that really depends on location.

md95065

I didn't say that you *couldn't* live on $60k - I said that I didn't think that you would be financially better off than you are in the UK.

If being back in the US is sufficiently important to you then, yes, a family of three can get by on $60,000 in California but you will find that you are, indeed, only just "getting by" and that you will be constantly worrying about money.

In the end you just have to look at what you want and what you can afford and decide for yourself whether or not you can make ends meet.

slummymummy

You need to do a Consular Report of Birth Abroad for your son, that is you need to take a trip to the US Embassy in London with him to get him registred as a US citizen. Then you can apply for a US passport too. Info in this link.

http://london.usembassy.gov/cons_new.../robirth4.html

As for living costs, we currently live in FL, 2 adults and 2 preschool kids on about $8k/month. Rent 2400, preschool 1500, health ins 750, food 1000.

limeynus

I'm a single woman in Orange County, been here 20 years. I earn in the $65-75K range. Own a small 1,200 ft condo that I purchased back in 2000 for $150K (now worth approx $250K).

Medical insurance costs me just over $150 /month. Employer pays the rest. Bills:

Car insurance $900/year for a 2007 VW
gas/electric never over $100/month combined
water/trash included in HOA @ $300/month
cable/phone/internet $100/month
Gas for car $100/month - driving 30 miles round trip to/from work.
Mortage $930/month
property taxes $1900/year paid 2x a year
Home insurance $450 year
Cell phone $70/month

Some idea of costs for you.

erics_dad

Thanks again guys/gals for your advice and opinions. It's a nice good reality check for me and whilst I hate to admit it, I realize I'm being a bit naive in thinking that the US is automatically cheaper. Granted, when I first moved here I was a newly wed and my wife and I didn't have a child or a mortgage etc.

California definitely sounds very expensive and to think most homes in Mtn View are around the $1m mark is crazy...not that I'd move back to the Bay Area but still. Health insurance seems to be one of the most expensive monthly bills too, crazy expensive in fact. Good grief! I was a student for several years in my early adulthood (e.g. 2 bachelor degrees) and literally went for years without health insurance. Different for me now with a kid.

Also, for clarity, yes, it does depend on where in the US you live as far as "outdoor lifestyle". MA compared to CA is going to be very different. It's also not so much that I'm desperate to get back to CA. I've been here nearly 10 years, am settled, do actually love a lot of things about England (though Morecambe isn't my type of town) and all I really am concerned about is improving the lifestyle for me and my family. Seems I need to earn more money overall, no matter where I live.

Lots to really consider...

slummymummy

Mmm... you seem very sensible.

Whatever you decide for now you should still get your son registered as a US citizen, at least before he turns 18! Might be useful for him in the future.

MarkCowan

Personal Experience - Current: Living in Costa Mesa/Newport Area - South OC.
You can rent a 2 bedroom apartment easily for $1500 in an excellent area on the eastside Costa Mesa or even down near 17th St Newport. Lots of Bars and Restuarants and safe fun area.

You can get a family of 3 for $500 a month health insurance, easily and not pay craxy high deductables.

Food, will average from $100-$200 per week depending on eating out or at home.

Gas is about $80 a week.

Utilities is about $400 a month average, including cable and internet.

Cell Phone is about $200 a month with 2 lines.

1 Car Payment $300 a month

1 Car Insurance $100 a month ( this could be higher since you have no running history )

This assumes no credit card debt or other debt:

Rent $1500
Health Insurance $500
Utilities $300
Cell Phone $200
Gas approx $350
Max Food $800
Car Payment $300
Car Insurance $100
Approx Total $4050

Factor in the unknown, potential credit card payments, car registration, days out, many other unexpected crappy things : living off of $1000 a month excess can be done easily but with Disney so close and birthday parties and BBQ's almost every weekend and so much to do, I would say that should be more like $2000 a month excess to have a comfortable life and not worry about your next pay check or paying your bills.

So living off $6000 per month take home pay is very livable, if you have your eggs in the right baskets and dont go crazy.

Good luck.

Michael

The vast majority of homes in Mountain View are above $1 million. Palo Alto, Los Altos, Los Alto Hills, and Saratoga are the very expensive cities but even those pale compared to Atherton and Hillsborough.

erics_dad

Thanks for the advice slummymummy regarding my son getting US citizenship. Something I'll definitely consider. I also plan to get UK citizenship soon too as that also makes sense for me (and as Bob mentioned). I do have what's called "Indefinite Leave To Remain" which I *think* would allow me to leave for an extended period and be able to come back and live once again but, citizenship would make more sense IMO.

Also, thanks limeynus, Mark, and to all who have provided a guide to the cost of living. It does seem possible on roughly $50-$60k/year and seeing the costs broken down is very helpful. I never thought about my credit and being away for so long and the impact that might have.

As far as cost comparisons, ie what I'm paying now...more or less:

1) My mortgage currently is a lot less than $1500/mo, closer to $1000/mo. but it's a small house in a town with hardly any job prospects.
2) No health insurance costs (other than paying for it in taxes, council tax, etc.)
3) Utilities (gas/elec/water) ~$200/mo (not including home insurance, etc.)
4) Mobile phones (2) ~$115/mo
5) Gas/Petrol ~$110-$120/mo....I work from home and almost never drive the car but my wife uses it for her part time job. Last year, we only put 5,000 miles on it but I realize in CA you drive a lot and a lot more plus, the nice weather means you'd be "out and about" a lot more too so $300/mo seems reasonable. We fill up our car once every 3 weeks which is somewhat rare IMO.
6) Food (excluding going out) ~$150-$200/week
7) Car payment ~$500/mo
8) Car insurance is way cheaper here - we have a new(ish) car and pay only ~$40/mo or $500/yr
9) Cable/TV/Phone ~$140/mo

Of course, here we pay TV tax (granted, that's only about £10 or $16/mo) and council tax which in my area is £119/mo or $200/mo. Overall, our basic costs are around $3,500/mo just to live...no excess whatsoever. Add in (very modest) excess and I'm sure it's closer to $4,500/mo.

Anyway, sounds like costs are in fact similar. The upside to say, southern Cal, would be being outdoors more but, you'd most likely drive a lot more too. I'm always indoors here (which I hate) but then again, my "job" is on the computer. The weather keeps me in otherwise.

Lots to consider and no matter what we plan or choose, it ain't gonna be cheap! lol

@Michael - wow, can't believe Los Altos Hills would "pale" in comparison to Atherton/Hillsborough. Guess I didn't know many people from those towns growing up but can only imagine the costs these days. What about Marin county, isn't it pricey up there too?

Michael

Marin county is overall more expensive than the peninsula. Even the east bay would not be considered cheap. Now many live along 680 (Walnut Creek, Pleasanton, Danville, Livermore, etc.) to get slightly lower prices with larger houses and lots. Then prior to the credit crisis, people were purchasing homes in Stockton and Tracy since prices were so cheap but investors drove those prices up very high and now those cities have a very large number of vacant foreclosed homes valued at less than half the price before the crash.

Englishtart

Have you considered the East coast, as opposed to the West? We currently live in South Carolina, Charleston area.

Last year we moved out of a 2 bed/2bath 1500 sq ft ranch style rental house, with fenced back yard and garage (decent area) We were paying $1.000 a month for rent, utilities were about $150 pm on average, cable/tv/internet $150 pm. renters ins $50 pm, car costs inc gas $500 per year, would be more if you had monthly finance payments. School district is one of the best in the area for younger students. Great weather if you like it hot, lots to do in the area, close to good Airports etc. May not be a cheap commute to visit your family in CA, but lot cheaper than from the UK.

Me, I would love to go back and live in the UK, just can't afford it

McZaki

I dont think he needs one, he is already a qualified British, judging by the moaning

On a serious note, I agree with the OP that £100k income in Blighty is not very much these days, particularly if you live in London or Edinburgh. I was earning slightly more than £100k gross p.a. a job in the banking sector in Edinburgh before taking the career break and we were just “getting by” albeit not living rough! I admit that the lifestyle plays a big role –we were not very ‘smart’ with our finances.

erics_dad – why don’t you consider a short stint in the Middle East e.g. Dubai? It is a fantastic place to live. You can set up your own company in one of the free zones. There are no taxes, gas is approx $1.5/gallon, no forex issues – $ is fixed. Generally, the weather is nice but the summer months are very hot, it is very safe almost no crime. Housing and Schooling are the major expenses here. The downside, it’s not cheap to live here. You would need to make between £7k- £9K pcm for a decent lifestyle - you can easily make that and more as a freelance consultant. Even if you don’t want to relocate there, consider ‘moving’ your business to the UAE, it’s a tax haven.