NSBlake

It's not the only thing holding my argument together.........., but as there is no evidence to back up either side I thought it best to be a little jovial...we are still allowed to do that aren't we? Whoops, I did it again.

Oh, and people postings articles about "there's no place to hide" and "freedom" (you have to shout that in a fake scottish Mel Gibson'esque voice, to get the real effect) really doesn't count as measures that hold the other side's argument's together either.

ian-mstm

Ian

paulpur

LOL , i like your idea Ian , save lots of problems

sir_eccles

Coincidentally the sniffer dogs are better trained and also more reliable than TSA staff.

Oddly enough, when I opted out last time they didn't even put me through the metal detector just opened a gate to one side bypassed all the machines did a half hearted pat down then sent me on my way.

Octang Frye

I worked with an Indian muslim called Mohammed (obviously).
He was absolutely terrified of dogs. One Saturday, we were in the office. Mohammed, myself and this other chap, Keith.

Keith has a huge Shiloh shepherd. Probably about 140lbs. Beautiful dog.
As it was a weekend, and there was nobody else in - we didn't know Mohammed was there - Keith let the dog wander the floor.

All of a sudden, we hear a supremely high-pitched blood curdling shriek from way across the office. Shyla had entered his cubicle, Mohammed leapt on his desk, over the cube wall, screaming as he screamed down the corridor. Little stick of a fella, I've never seen an Indian run that fast before.

Keith apologized, but Keith's a joker, and as we all left, Keith unleashed the dog, M ran again and the dog chased him across the parking lot (she was playing.) I know I shouldn't have, but I laughed my ass off.

So why is this germane? Because of the link to the TSA shocktroops searching people on AmTrak. If that goon had let his dog "sniff" Mohammed, he would have just bolted. Some people are *really* afraid of dogs.

Bob

That's the thing, being scanned hasn't made you safer.

It has lined the pockets of big corporations who lobby the government to get these contracts on the other hand, as well as reduce your freedoms.

tonrob

The thing is - the would-be terrorist doesn't even have to put him/herself in the situation where they would need to opt out. Publicly available information will show which airport to depart from and they can just join a queue that doesn't have the nude-o-scope, this rendering the fact that the rest of us are pushed through these things entirely bloody futile.

NSBlake

I can't find the "rolled eyes smiley" - is there one.................?

Guindalf

I'm bowing out of this thread. It's obvious that some people have far better foil hats than I do!

Octang Frye

Hardly. Alluding to a conspiracy is moot. These are tangible things: scanners, heavily armed goons, dogs.

Bob

Indeed, some of us would actually like to be safe rather than have the impression that one is safe foisted upon them to hide the deficiencies put in place.

moneypenny20

Just out of interest, not having been near an airport, especially an American one in a fair while, had these security measures (bar the locking the cockpit door one) been in operation prior to 9/11, would the hijackers have been stopped? Would Reid have got through?

Octang Frye

Doubtful. This is what they did. Each team was meant to have five people - two pilots and three muscle guys to block access to the cockpit and ensure the passengers stayed subdued. They were all sat in first class.

They attacked the flight attendants, slashing their throats. The purpose was to lure the pilots out of the cockpit, and the shock value of the blood and the murders would keep the passengers passive and cowed.

The pilots were then murdered. You can hear their gargling and death moans in the ATC tapes. Not very pleasant.

The reason it worked was because of the shock value, the timing, the savagery of the attack, a bomb threat, and easy access to the cockpit.
In addition, in prior hijackings, planes were flown to other countries and ransoms issued or political demands made. The paradigm to use the plane as a guided missile was not on the cards.

They used box cutters to do their cutting. Even today, despite all the supposed safety measures, it is possible to carry a plastic knife, or to fashion a knife similar to a boxcutter from an aluminum can, which are given out on the plane.

They got away it with because no-one had ever done this before, and no-one could conceive of the eventual outcome.
It won't happen again.

sir_eccles

The odd thing is that box cutters weren't allowed on planes even before 9/11.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/...in528967.shtml

Lion in Winter

Well I certainly hope I don't end up in an orange jump suit for saying this, but this Christmas I inadvertently carried the following onto an international flight, originating in a major US airport: one foldable steel tin opener - you know, sharp blade for, er, opening things; one emergency metal waterproof lighter (size small) complete with fuel in it; one widgie bar - you know, for widgying things open, opening boxes, pulling nails and a thousand other uses.

I certainly didn't mean to do this. These are things that live on my key chain. Normally I take them off before travelling. This year I just forgot and I didn't discover them until I was unpacking in England. It was all clipped on a loop in my backpack (my carry on), and not in any way hidden or disguised, and it went through all the x rays and security checks completely unnoticed and/or unremarked. I'm pretty sure that if it had been Heathrow it would have been taken off me, but not here, oh no.

So what good are all the machine guns, etc., eh?