Why Immigrants Won't Assimilate
Apr 3rd 2006, 8:18 am
#1
Guest
Posts: n/a
Why Immigrants Won't Assimilate
There has been a lot of debate as to why immigrants will not assimilate
into the American culture.
However, all those who are now assimilated children of immigrants seem
to have forgotten how long it took their families to assimilate.
I am sure it was not done in 2-3 years or even one generation. But even
if they could assimilate rather quickly, here are some of the reasons
why the present ones are not assimilating as quickly as you may wish
they would.
1) Socially, the American society is not very accepting of people with
foreign accents (except British colonial, soft North European- Swedish,
Norwegian etc,. and a gentle French accent). Learning to speak a
language without an accent is a very difficult proposition after the
age of 12. If you have an accent, ostracism or mockery is very common.
Scorn for and phobia of other cultures and languages is common, too.
Many people do not want to be mocked and ridiculed (do you?), so they
stick to their own kind.
I remember in NY, where I used to live, it was common for kids not to
play with someone whose parents had an accent. This is how bad it can
get.
Latin American societies such as Brazil or Argentina, on the other
hand, are much less anal about such things and if you have an accent it
is no big deal. Hence, there you have people who came at a more mature
age and found a society that is far less suspicious and more embracing.
After a person becomes a citizen of Argentina, he is called an
Argentinean and that's that. Accent or no accent. But try speaking with
an accent to a bunch of working class Americans. Suspicious looks and
frowns will abound. And few if any will see you as an American.
2) The Anglo-Saxon culture of the US is cliquish and not very friendly;
socially that is. The laws are very generous and the Constitution is
superb. A great friendly government, but many people are very much into
their small groups. Breaking into those groups is not an easy task. So,
many people just don't bother- they have other priorities.
3) Nativism; "American means: born here!" I remember a very classical
example of how it works: I was at work and one employee called me a
"foreigner" in an unfriendly way. Actually, this had happened more than
once. He had found out that I was not born in the US because I am
fluent in many languages and the 'terrible truth' had surfaced. Then,
when I answered- "I am not a foreigner, but a US citizen", a pat answer
came my way: "I mean a foreigner; not born here!". This attitude is
very common in the US, although, admittedly, not all people adhere to
it- there are some nice people that see you as someone who 'became' an
American. But socially, unless you are British or Aussie who turned
into an American and have no accent now, you will not really be seen as
such by many common people in the US.
Just look at the websites that have been organized to stymie Arnold
Schwarzenegger's alleged bid for US presidency.
They are calling him a "foreigner" even though he is a US citizen and
had taken the Oath of Renunciation without which one cannot become one.
Such an attitude is 'very' widespread in the US.
There is also an ingrained social way of looking at immigrants. In the
American culture people do not ask you "Are you a US citizen?" they
ask you "Where are you from (originally)?". Once you tell them,
bingo! You are an immigrant to many (if not most) people. And it does
not matter how long you have been in the country and if you are US
citizen.
And also, the US media simply loves to attach the title "German- born",
"Russian-born", etc. to anyone who was not born in the US. Even if they
are US citizens. And God forbid if you do something bad- immediately
the word "immigrant" surfaces. Remember Zsa Zsa when she slapped that
policeman? The judge was telling her "It is like you slapped every
American!" meaning in a subtle way she was 'not' an American. Some
huckler started yelling " Go back to Hungary" at the hearing, too.
In Argentina or Brazil, no. Look at Carlos Gardel- the famous tango
composer. He is referred to as an Argentinean even though he was
French-born. Few even talk about his foreign birth. But in America, it
is an issue. At least one that is worth mentioning.
There is no difference in the popular culture and understanding between
a legal immigrant, illegal immigrant and a naturalized US citizen as
far as the working masses of the US population go. They are all the
same. And then they have censuses of the foreign born population in
which the above categories are dumped into one.
4) The class of people that would want to come and live in the US is
usually that of people in economic need or refugees. Refugees do not
really 'want' to be in the US. Coming was a necessity; not a need. It
is just that they were unfortunate enough to be in very bad
circumstances, and although they are grateful to the US government for
all the benefits, emotionally they are still attached to their country.
Add to that the social (not the official) hostility against them and
you have a recipe for multiculturalism.
The other, very poor people may not have the smarts (and the IQ) to go
to school and assimilate. And even if young you would not want to be a
kid with an accent at a US school. I have been one and you are harassed
very often and can get beat up. Young American kids can be nasty. You
will have no friends, no dates, nothing. Unless of course you are from
a popular country such as Switzerland, Australia, the UK, etc. But
these are not coming to the US for the most part.
If you had people of "high class" with means coming to the US from
places such as Belgium or the Netherlands, etc, there would not be an
assimilation issue- they would all assimilate very quickly. But people
from those countries rarely want to come- life is better there than in
the US now.
The US immigration quotas favor non-white people from very different
cultures for whom the Anglo-based culture is not easy to learn, plus
they would not really be accepted into the mainstream even if they
wanted to. Racism is still strong- from the whites, the blacks and even
other immigrants who had come before them.
5) The US now is not about culture, assimilation, etc. It is mostly
about making money. So, people concentrate on that. Prices are high,
rents are high. People work to make ends meet. Some work to save for
school, cars, apartments, etc. Cultural and language studies are
secondary.
Thus, assimilation is left to its own devices and it will take its
natural course- two or three generations. Just like it has with most
other assimilated immigrants' children whom you see around you. So,
immigrants are assimilating, at their own pace, although you may not
see it. Just like you cannot see grass grow. First they will learn
accented English, then, have American-born children; and those, in
turn, will have American-born children-these will be completely
American. It is simply taking the usual 30-50 years as prescribed in an
unwritten way by the American culture for all those who are not Anglos,
whether white or black.
into the American culture.
However, all those who are now assimilated children of immigrants seem
to have forgotten how long it took their families to assimilate.
I am sure it was not done in 2-3 years or even one generation. But even
if they could assimilate rather quickly, here are some of the reasons
why the present ones are not assimilating as quickly as you may wish
they would.
1) Socially, the American society is not very accepting of people with
foreign accents (except British colonial, soft North European- Swedish,
Norwegian etc,. and a gentle French accent). Learning to speak a
language without an accent is a very difficult proposition after the
age of 12. If you have an accent, ostracism or mockery is very common.
Scorn for and phobia of other cultures and languages is common, too.
Many people do not want to be mocked and ridiculed (do you?), so they
stick to their own kind.
I remember in NY, where I used to live, it was common for kids not to
play with someone whose parents had an accent. This is how bad it can
get.
Latin American societies such as Brazil or Argentina, on the other
hand, are much less anal about such things and if you have an accent it
is no big deal. Hence, there you have people who came at a more mature
age and found a society that is far less suspicious and more embracing.
After a person becomes a citizen of Argentina, he is called an
Argentinean and that's that. Accent or no accent. But try speaking with
an accent to a bunch of working class Americans. Suspicious looks and
frowns will abound. And few if any will see you as an American.
2) The Anglo-Saxon culture of the US is cliquish and not very friendly;
socially that is. The laws are very generous and the Constitution is
superb. A great friendly government, but many people are very much into
their small groups. Breaking into those groups is not an easy task. So,
many people just don't bother- they have other priorities.
3) Nativism; "American means: born here!" I remember a very classical
example of how it works: I was at work and one employee called me a
"foreigner" in an unfriendly way. Actually, this had happened more than
once. He had found out that I was not born in the US because I am
fluent in many languages and the 'terrible truth' had surfaced. Then,
when I answered- "I am not a foreigner, but a US citizen", a pat answer
came my way: "I mean a foreigner; not born here!". This attitude is
very common in the US, although, admittedly, not all people adhere to
it- there are some nice people that see you as someone who 'became' an
American. But socially, unless you are British or Aussie who turned
into an American and have no accent now, you will not really be seen as
such by many common people in the US.
Just look at the websites that have been organized to stymie Arnold
Schwarzenegger's alleged bid for US presidency.
They are calling him a "foreigner" even though he is a US citizen and
had taken the Oath of Renunciation without which one cannot become one.
Such an attitude is 'very' widespread in the US.
There is also an ingrained social way of looking at immigrants. In the
American culture people do not ask you "Are you a US citizen?" they
ask you "Where are you from (originally)?". Once you tell them,
bingo! You are an immigrant to many (if not most) people. And it does
not matter how long you have been in the country and if you are US
citizen.
And also, the US media simply loves to attach the title "German- born",
"Russian-born", etc. to anyone who was not born in the US. Even if they
are US citizens. And God forbid if you do something bad- immediately
the word "immigrant" surfaces. Remember Zsa Zsa when she slapped that
policeman? The judge was telling her "It is like you slapped every
American!" meaning in a subtle way she was 'not' an American. Some
huckler started yelling " Go back to Hungary" at the hearing, too.
In Argentina or Brazil, no. Look at Carlos Gardel- the famous tango
composer. He is referred to as an Argentinean even though he was
French-born. Few even talk about his foreign birth. But in America, it
is an issue. At least one that is worth mentioning.
There is no difference in the popular culture and understanding between
a legal immigrant, illegal immigrant and a naturalized US citizen as
far as the working masses of the US population go. They are all the
same. And then they have censuses of the foreign born population in
which the above categories are dumped into one.
4) The class of people that would want to come and live in the US is
usually that of people in economic need or refugees. Refugees do not
really 'want' to be in the US. Coming was a necessity; not a need. It
is just that they were unfortunate enough to be in very bad
circumstances, and although they are grateful to the US government for
all the benefits, emotionally they are still attached to their country.
Add to that the social (not the official) hostility against them and
you have a recipe for multiculturalism.
The other, very poor people may not have the smarts (and the IQ) to go
to school and assimilate. And even if young you would not want to be a
kid with an accent at a US school. I have been one and you are harassed
very often and can get beat up. Young American kids can be nasty. You
will have no friends, no dates, nothing. Unless of course you are from
a popular country such as Switzerland, Australia, the UK, etc. But
these are not coming to the US for the most part.
If you had people of "high class" with means coming to the US from
places such as Belgium or the Netherlands, etc, there would not be an
assimilation issue- they would all assimilate very quickly. But people
from those countries rarely want to come- life is better there than in
the US now.
The US immigration quotas favor non-white people from very different
cultures for whom the Anglo-based culture is not easy to learn, plus
they would not really be accepted into the mainstream even if they
wanted to. Racism is still strong- from the whites, the blacks and even
other immigrants who had come before them.
5) The US now is not about culture, assimilation, etc. It is mostly
about making money. So, people concentrate on that. Prices are high,
rents are high. People work to make ends meet. Some work to save for
school, cars, apartments, etc. Cultural and language studies are
secondary.
Thus, assimilation is left to its own devices and it will take its
natural course- two or three generations. Just like it has with most
other assimilated immigrants' children whom you see around you. So,
immigrants are assimilating, at their own pace, although you may not
see it. Just like you cannot see grass grow. First they will learn
accented English, then, have American-born children; and those, in
turn, will have American-born children-these will be completely
American. It is simply taking the usual 30-50 years as prescribed in an
unwritten way by the American culture for all those who are not Anglos,
whether white or black.
Apr 3rd 2006, 9:47 am
#2
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Why Immigrants Won't Assimilate
[email protected] dixit:
> If you had people of "high class" with means coming to the US from
> places such as Belgium or the Netherlands, etc, there would not be an
> assimilation issue- they would all assimilate very quickly. But people
> from those countries rarely want to come- life is better there than in
> the US now.
Really? Well, I live in Belgium and I lead a rather confortable life here,
but I see no point anymore in paying 55% of my income in taxes.
I'd say that, only not to see your paycheck shrinking every month to fund
long-term unemployed / assylum seekers / idiotic politicians / etc, it's
worth moving to the US.
Marcos
> If you had people of "high class" with means coming to the US from
> places such as Belgium or the Netherlands, etc, there would not be an
> assimilation issue- they would all assimilate very quickly. But people
> from those countries rarely want to come- life is better there than in
> the US now.
Really? Well, I live in Belgium and I lead a rather confortable life here,
but I see no point anymore in paying 55% of my income in taxes.
I'd say that, only not to see your paycheck shrinking every month to fund
long-term unemployed / assylum seekers / idiotic politicians / etc, it's
worth moving to the US.
Marcos
Apr 3rd 2006, 9:56 am
#3
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Why Immigrants Won't Assimilate
Today's "immigrant" - especially illegals from Mexico - doesn't
assimilate like the Italian or Polish (legal) immigrant of a century
ago BECAUSE HE DOESN'T HAVE TO! Today's illegal alien can find: radio
in Spanish (in even far-from-border areas like North Carolina), free
weekly newspapers in Spanish, taped music in Spanish, videocassette
Mexican movies in Spanish, Mexican soccer on satellite, bilingual
education for his kids, driver-license tests in Spanish, state troopers
here required to be fluent in Spanish, welfare-department literature in
Spanish, lawyers and car dealers with Yellow Pages ads advertising "se
hablo Espanol." Is it a surprise that many of today's illegal aliens
aren't fluent in English?
No $4 to park! No $6 admission! http://www.INTERNET-GUN-SHOW.com
assimilate like the Italian or Polish (legal) immigrant of a century
ago BECAUSE HE DOESN'T HAVE TO! Today's illegal alien can find: radio
in Spanish (in even far-from-border areas like North Carolina), free
weekly newspapers in Spanish, taped music in Spanish, videocassette
Mexican movies in Spanish, Mexican soccer on satellite, bilingual
education for his kids, driver-license tests in Spanish, state troopers
here required to be fluent in Spanish, welfare-department literature in
Spanish, lawyers and car dealers with Yellow Pages ads advertising "se
hablo Espanol." Is it a surprise that many of today's illegal aliens
aren't fluent in English?
No $4 to park! No $6 admission! http://www.INTERNET-GUN-SHOW.com
Apr 3rd 2006, 1:45 pm
#4
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Why Immigrants Won't Assimilate
Sounds like a lot of lame excuses for laziness. And of course you have
one other option if you refuse to adapt - go back to a country in which
they speak your language, and never return.
> There has been a lot of debate as to why immigrants will not assimilate
> into the American culture.
>
> However, all those who are now assimilated children of immigrants seem
> to have forgotten how long it took their families to assimilate.
>
> I am sure it was not done in 2-3 years or even one generation. But even
> if they could assimilate rather quickly, here are some of the reasons
> why the present ones are not assimilating as quickly as you may wish
> they would.
>
> 1) Socially, the American society is not very accepting of people with
> foreign accents (except British colonial, soft North European- Swedish,
> Norwegian etc,. and a gentle French accent). Learning to speak a
> language without an accent is a very difficult proposition after the
> age of 12. If you have an accent, ostracism or mockery is very common.
> Scorn for and phobia of other cultures and languages is common, too.
> Many people do not want to be mocked and ridiculed (do you?), so they
> stick to their own kind.
>
> I remember in NY, where I used to live, it was common for kids not to
> play with someone whose parents had an accent. This is how bad it can
> get.
>
> Latin American societies such as Brazil or Argentina, on the other
> hand, are much less anal about such things and if you have an accent it
> is no big deal. Hence, there you have people who came at a more mature
> age and found a society that is far less suspicious and more embracing.
> After a person becomes a citizen of Argentina, he is called an
> Argentinean and that's that. Accent or no accent. But try speaking with
> an accent to a bunch of working class Americans. Suspicious looks and
> frowns will abound. And few if any will see you as an American.
>
> 2) The Anglo-Saxon culture of the US is cliquish and not very friendly;
> socially that is. The laws are very generous and the Constitution is
> superb. A great friendly government, but many people are very much into
> their small groups. Breaking into those groups is not an easy task. So,
> many people just don't bother- they have other priorities.
>
> 3) Nativism; "American means: born here!" I remember a very classical
> example of how it works: I was at work and one employee called me a
> "foreigner" in an unfriendly way. Actually, this had happened more than
> once. He had found out that I was not born in the US because I am
> fluent in many languages and the 'terrible truth' had surfaced. Then,
> when I answered- "I am not a foreigner, but a US citizen", a pat answer
> came my way: "I mean a foreigner; not born here!". This attitude is
> very common in the US, although, admittedly, not all people adhere to
> it- there are some nice people that see you as someone who 'became' an
> American. But socially, unless you are British or Aussie who turned
> into an American and have no accent now, you will not really be seen as
> such by many common people in the US.
>
> Just look at the websites that have been organized to stymie Arnold
> Schwarzenegger's alleged bid for US presidency.
>
> They are calling him a "foreigner" even though he is a US citizen and
> had taken the Oath of Renunciation without which one cannot become one.
> Such an attitude is 'very' widespread in the US.
>
> There is also an ingrained social way of looking at immigrants. In the
> American culture people do not ask you "Are you a US citizen?" they
> ask you "Where are you from (originally)?". Once you tell them,
> bingo! You are an immigrant to many (if not most) people. And it does
> not matter how long you have been in the country and if you are US
> citizen.
>
> And also, the US media simply loves to attach the title "German- born",
> "Russian-born", etc. to anyone who was not born in the US. Even if they
> are US citizens. And God forbid if you do something bad- immediately
> the word "immigrant" surfaces. Remember Zsa Zsa when she slapped that
> policeman? The judge was telling her "It is like you slapped every
> American!" meaning in a subtle way she was 'not' an American. Some
> huckler started yelling " Go back to Hungary" at the hearing, too.
>
> In Argentina or Brazil, no. Look at Carlos Gardel- the famous tango
> composer. He is referred to as an Argentinean even though he was
> French-born. Few even talk about his foreign birth. But in America, it
> is an issue. At least one that is worth mentioning.
>
> There is no difference in the popular culture and understanding between
> a legal immigrant, illegal immigrant and a naturalized US citizen as
> far as the working masses of the US population go. They are all the
> same. And then they have censuses of the foreign born population in
> which the above categories are dumped into one.
>
> 4) The class of people that would want to come and live in the US is
> usually that of people in economic need or refugees. Refugees do not
> really 'want' to be in the US. Coming was a necessity; not a need. It
> is just that they were unfortunate enough to be in very bad
> circumstances, and although they are grateful to the US government for
> all the benefits, emotionally they are still attached to their country.
> Add to that the social (not the official) hostility against them and
> you have a recipe for multiculturalism.
>
> The other, very poor people may not have the smarts (and the IQ) to go
> to school and assimilate. And even if young you would not want to be a
> kid with an accent at a US school. I have been one and you are harassed
> very often and can get beat up. Young American kids can be nasty. You
> will have no friends, no dates, nothing. Unless of course you are from
> a popular country such as Switzerland, Australia, the UK, etc. But
> these are not coming to the US for the most part.
>
> If you had people of "high class" with means coming to the US from
> places such as Belgium or the Netherlands, etc, there would not be an
> assimilation issue- they would all assimilate very quickly. But people
> from those countries rarely want to come- life is better there than in
> the US now.
>
> The US immigration quotas favor non-white people from very different
> cultures for whom the Anglo-based culture is not easy to learn, plus
> they would not really be accepted into the mainstream even if they
> wanted to. Racism is still strong- from the whites, the blacks and even
> other immigrants who had come before them.
>
> 5) The US now is not about culture, assimilation, etc. It is mostly
> about making money. So, people concentrate on that. Prices are high,
> rents are high. People work to make ends meet. Some work to save for
> school, cars, apartments, etc. Cultural and language studies are
> secondary.
>
> Thus, assimilation is left to its own devices and it will take its
> natural course- two or three generations. Just like it has with most
> other assimilated immigrants' children whom you see around you. So,
> immigrants are assimilating, at their own pace, although you may not
> see it. Just like you cannot see grass grow. First they will learn
> accented English, then, have American-born children; and those, in
> turn, will have American-born children-these will be completely
> American. It is simply taking the usual 30-50 years as prescribed in an
> unwritten way by the American culture for all those who are not Anglos,
> whether white or black.
>
one other option if you refuse to adapt - go back to a country in which
they speak your language, and never return.
> There has been a lot of debate as to why immigrants will not assimilate
> into the American culture.
>
> However, all those who are now assimilated children of immigrants seem
> to have forgotten how long it took their families to assimilate.
>
> I am sure it was not done in 2-3 years or even one generation. But even
> if they could assimilate rather quickly, here are some of the reasons
> why the present ones are not assimilating as quickly as you may wish
> they would.
>
> 1) Socially, the American society is not very accepting of people with
> foreign accents (except British colonial, soft North European- Swedish,
> Norwegian etc,. and a gentle French accent). Learning to speak a
> language without an accent is a very difficult proposition after the
> age of 12. If you have an accent, ostracism or mockery is very common.
> Scorn for and phobia of other cultures and languages is common, too.
> Many people do not want to be mocked and ridiculed (do you?), so they
> stick to their own kind.
>
> I remember in NY, where I used to live, it was common for kids not to
> play with someone whose parents had an accent. This is how bad it can
> get.
>
> Latin American societies such as Brazil or Argentina, on the other
> hand, are much less anal about such things and if you have an accent it
> is no big deal. Hence, there you have people who came at a more mature
> age and found a society that is far less suspicious and more embracing.
> After a person becomes a citizen of Argentina, he is called an
> Argentinean and that's that. Accent or no accent. But try speaking with
> an accent to a bunch of working class Americans. Suspicious looks and
> frowns will abound. And few if any will see you as an American.
>
> 2) The Anglo-Saxon culture of the US is cliquish and not very friendly;
> socially that is. The laws are very generous and the Constitution is
> superb. A great friendly government, but many people are very much into
> their small groups. Breaking into those groups is not an easy task. So,
> many people just don't bother- they have other priorities.
>
> 3) Nativism; "American means: born here!" I remember a very classical
> example of how it works: I was at work and one employee called me a
> "foreigner" in an unfriendly way. Actually, this had happened more than
> once. He had found out that I was not born in the US because I am
> fluent in many languages and the 'terrible truth' had surfaced. Then,
> when I answered- "I am not a foreigner, but a US citizen", a pat answer
> came my way: "I mean a foreigner; not born here!". This attitude is
> very common in the US, although, admittedly, not all people adhere to
> it- there are some nice people that see you as someone who 'became' an
> American. But socially, unless you are British or Aussie who turned
> into an American and have no accent now, you will not really be seen as
> such by many common people in the US.
>
> Just look at the websites that have been organized to stymie Arnold
> Schwarzenegger's alleged bid for US presidency.
>
> They are calling him a "foreigner" even though he is a US citizen and
> had taken the Oath of Renunciation without which one cannot become one.
> Such an attitude is 'very' widespread in the US.
>
> There is also an ingrained social way of looking at immigrants. In the
> American culture people do not ask you "Are you a US citizen?" they
> ask you "Where are you from (originally)?". Once you tell them,
> bingo! You are an immigrant to many (if not most) people. And it does
> not matter how long you have been in the country and if you are US
> citizen.
>
> And also, the US media simply loves to attach the title "German- born",
> "Russian-born", etc. to anyone who was not born in the US. Even if they
> are US citizens. And God forbid if you do something bad- immediately
> the word "immigrant" surfaces. Remember Zsa Zsa when she slapped that
> policeman? The judge was telling her "It is like you slapped every
> American!" meaning in a subtle way she was 'not' an American. Some
> huckler started yelling " Go back to Hungary" at the hearing, too.
>
> In Argentina or Brazil, no. Look at Carlos Gardel- the famous tango
> composer. He is referred to as an Argentinean even though he was
> French-born. Few even talk about his foreign birth. But in America, it
> is an issue. At least one that is worth mentioning.
>
> There is no difference in the popular culture and understanding between
> a legal immigrant, illegal immigrant and a naturalized US citizen as
> far as the working masses of the US population go. They are all the
> same. And then they have censuses of the foreign born population in
> which the above categories are dumped into one.
>
> 4) The class of people that would want to come and live in the US is
> usually that of people in economic need or refugees. Refugees do not
> really 'want' to be in the US. Coming was a necessity; not a need. It
> is just that they were unfortunate enough to be in very bad
> circumstances, and although they are grateful to the US government for
> all the benefits, emotionally they are still attached to their country.
> Add to that the social (not the official) hostility against them and
> you have a recipe for multiculturalism.
>
> The other, very poor people may not have the smarts (and the IQ) to go
> to school and assimilate. And even if young you would not want to be a
> kid with an accent at a US school. I have been one and you are harassed
> very often and can get beat up. Young American kids can be nasty. You
> will have no friends, no dates, nothing. Unless of course you are from
> a popular country such as Switzerland, Australia, the UK, etc. But
> these are not coming to the US for the most part.
>
> If you had people of "high class" with means coming to the US from
> places such as Belgium or the Netherlands, etc, there would not be an
> assimilation issue- they would all assimilate very quickly. But people
> from those countries rarely want to come- life is better there than in
> the US now.
>
> The US immigration quotas favor non-white people from very different
> cultures for whom the Anglo-based culture is not easy to learn, plus
> they would not really be accepted into the mainstream even if they
> wanted to. Racism is still strong- from the whites, the blacks and even
> other immigrants who had come before them.
>
> 5) The US now is not about culture, assimilation, etc. It is mostly
> about making money. So, people concentrate on that. Prices are high,
> rents are high. People work to make ends meet. Some work to save for
> school, cars, apartments, etc. Cultural and language studies are
> secondary.
>
> Thus, assimilation is left to its own devices and it will take its
> natural course- two or three generations. Just like it has with most
> other assimilated immigrants' children whom you see around you. So,
> immigrants are assimilating, at their own pace, although you may not
> see it. Just like you cannot see grass grow. First they will learn
> accented English, then, have American-born children; and those, in
> turn, will have American-born children-these will be completely
> American. It is simply taking the usual 30-50 years as prescribed in an
> unwritten way by the American culture for all those who are not Anglos,
> whether white or black.
>
Apr 3rd 2006, 2:12 pm
#5
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Why Immigrants Won't Assimilate
On 3 Apr 2006 01:18:34 -0700, [email protected] wrote:
>There has been a lot of debate as to why immigrants will not assimilate
>into the American culture.
Bah! It's the same old discussion that has started since the beginning
of the colonies. It's just boring!
--
"The trouble with the world is that the stupid are
cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt"
-- Bertrand Russell
>There has been a lot of debate as to why immigrants will not assimilate
>into the American culture.
Bah! It's the same old discussion that has started since the beginning
of the colonies. It's just boring!
--
"The trouble with the world is that the stupid are
cocksure and the intelligent are full of doubt"
-- Bertrand Russell
Apr 3rd 2006, 2:56 pm
#6
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Why Immigrants Won't Assimilate
[email protected] wrote:
> There has been a lot of debate as to why immigrants will not assimilate
> into the American culture.
That's all a bunch of crap, Senyor.
First off, it's Hispanicks and ONLY Hispanicks who will not assimilate
into mainstream USA and it's because they are a very proud people who
see the USA as an extension of the UK, the hated historic rivals of
their beloved Spaniards and they feel terribly humiliated that they
have to sneak into the country of their hated rivals to be able to
live decent lives. And for them to do anything like to speak English or
to buy an American car would be tantamount to being a "sellout" to the
proud Hispanick people.
> There has been a lot of debate as to why immigrants will not assimilate
> into the American culture.
That's all a bunch of crap, Senyor.
First off, it's Hispanicks and ONLY Hispanicks who will not assimilate
into mainstream USA and it's because they are a very proud people who
see the USA as an extension of the UK, the hated historic rivals of
their beloved Spaniards and they feel terribly humiliated that they
have to sneak into the country of their hated rivals to be able to
live decent lives. And for them to do anything like to speak English or
to buy an American car would be tantamount to being a "sellout" to the
proud Hispanick people.
Apr 3rd 2006, 3:26 pm
#7
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Why Immigrants Won't Assimilate
100 years ago in the USA there were hundreds of grade schools where only
German was spoken.
<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected] oups.com...
> Today's "immigrant" - especially illegals from Mexico - doesn't
> assimilate like the Italian or Polish (legal) immigrant of a century
> ago BECAUSE HE DOESN'T HAVE TO! Today's illegal alien can find: radio
> in Spanish (in even far-from-border areas like North Carolina), free
> weekly newspapers in Spanish, taped music in Spanish, videocassette
> Mexican movies in Spanish, Mexican soccer on satellite, bilingual
> education for his kids, driver-license tests in Spanish, state troopers
> here required to be fluent in Spanish, welfare-department literature in
> Spanish, lawyers and car dealers with Yellow Pages ads advertising "se
> hablo Espanol." Is it a surprise that many of today's illegal aliens
> aren't fluent in English?
> No $4 to park! No $6 admission! http://www.INTERNET-GUN-SHOW.com
>
German was spoken.
<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected] oups.com...
> Today's "immigrant" - especially illegals from Mexico - doesn't
> assimilate like the Italian or Polish (legal) immigrant of a century
> ago BECAUSE HE DOESN'T HAVE TO! Today's illegal alien can find: radio
> in Spanish (in even far-from-border areas like North Carolina), free
> weekly newspapers in Spanish, taped music in Spanish, videocassette
> Mexican movies in Spanish, Mexican soccer on satellite, bilingual
> education for his kids, driver-license tests in Spanish, state troopers
> here required to be fluent in Spanish, welfare-department literature in
> Spanish, lawyers and car dealers with Yellow Pages ads advertising "se
> hablo Espanol." Is it a surprise that many of today's illegal aliens
> aren't fluent in English?
> No $4 to park! No $6 admission! http://www.INTERNET-GUN-SHOW.com
>
Apr 3rd 2006, 3:28 pm
#8
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Why Immigrants Won't Assimilate
Before WWII most cops in NYC were Irish.
Know why? Because there were few others who could speak and read English.
<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected] oups.com...
> There has been a lot of debate as to why immigrants will not assimilate
> into the American culture.
> However, all those who are now assimilated children of immigrants seem
> to have forgotten how long it took their families to assimilate.
> I am sure it was not done in 2-3 years or even one generation. But even
> if they could assimilate rather quickly, here are some of the reasons
> why the present ones are not assimilating as quickly as you may wish
> they would.
> 1) Socially, the American society is not very accepting of people with
> foreign accents (except British colonial, soft North European- Swedish,
> Norwegian etc,. and a gentle French accent). Learning to speak a
> language without an accent is a very difficult proposition after the
> age of 12. If you have an accent, ostracism or mockery is very common.
> Scorn for and phobia of other cultures and languages is common, too.
> Many people do not want to be mocked and ridiculed (do you?), so they
> stick to their own kind.
> I remember in NY, where I used to live, it was common for kids not to
> play with someone whose parents had an accent. This is how bad it can
> get.
> Latin American societies such as Brazil or Argentina, on the other
> hand, are much less anal about such things and if you have an accent it
> is no big deal. Hence, there you have people who came at a more mature
> age and found a society that is far less suspicious and more embracing.
> After a person becomes a citizen of Argentina, he is called an
> Argentinean and that's that. Accent or no accent. But try speaking with
> an accent to a bunch of working class Americans. Suspicious looks and
> frowns will abound. And few if any will see you as an American.
> 2) The Anglo-Saxon culture of the US is cliquish and not very friendly;
> socially that is. The laws are very generous and the Constitution is
> superb. A great friendly government, but many people are very much into
> their small groups. Breaking into those groups is not an easy task. So,
> many people just don't bother- they have other priorities.
> 3) Nativism; "American means: born here!" I remember a very classical
> example of how it works: I was at work and one employee called me a
> "foreigner" in an unfriendly way. Actually, this had happened more than
> once. He had found out that I was not born in the US because I am
> fluent in many languages and the 'terrible truth' had surfaced. Then,
> when I answered- "I am not a foreigner, but a US citizen", a pat answer
> came my way: "I mean a foreigner; not born here!". This attitude is
> very common in the US, although, admittedly, not all people adhere to
> it- there are some nice people that see you as someone who 'became' an
> American. But socially, unless you are British or Aussie who turned
> into an American and have no accent now, you will not really be seen as
> such by many common people in the US.
> Just look at the websites that have been organized to stymie Arnold
> Schwarzenegger's alleged bid for US presidency.
> They are calling him a "foreigner" even though he is a US citizen and
> had taken the Oath of Renunciation without which one cannot become one.
> Such an attitude is 'very' widespread in the US.
> There is also an ingrained social way of looking at immigrants. In the
> American culture people do not ask you "Are you a US citizen?" they
> ask you "Where are you from (originally)?". Once you tell them,
> bingo! You are an immigrant to many (if not most) people. And it does
> not matter how long you have been in the country and if you are US
> citizen.
> And also, the US media simply loves to attach the title "German- born",
> "Russian-born", etc. to anyone who was not born in the US. Even if they
> are US citizens. And God forbid if you do something bad- immediately
> the word "immigrant" surfaces. Remember Zsa Zsa when she slapped that
> policeman? The judge was telling her "It is like you slapped every
> American!" meaning in a subtle way she was 'not' an American. Some
> huckler started yelling " Go back to Hungary" at the hearing, too.
> In Argentina or Brazil, no. Look at Carlos Gardel- the famous tango
> composer. He is referred to as an Argentinean even though he was
> French-born. Few even talk about his foreign birth. But in America, it
> is an issue. At least one that is worth mentioning.
> There is no difference in the popular culture and understanding between
> a legal immigrant, illegal immigrant and a naturalized US citizen as
> far as the working masses of the US population go. They are all the
> same. And then they have censuses of the foreign born population in
> which the above categories are dumped into one.
> 4) The class of people that would want to come and live in the US is
> usually that of people in economic need or refugees. Refugees do not
> really 'want' to be in the US. Coming was a necessity; not a need. It
> is just that they were unfortunate enough to be in very bad
> circumstances, and although they are grateful to the US government for
> all the benefits, emotionally they are still attached to their country.
> Add to that the social (not the official) hostility against them and
> you have a recipe for multiculturalism.
> The other, very poor people may not have the smarts (and the IQ) to go
> to school and assimilate. And even if young you would not want to be a
> kid with an accent at a US school. I have been one and you are harassed
> very often and can get beat up. Young American kids can be nasty. You
> will have no friends, no dates, nothing. Unless of course you are from
> a popular country such as Switzerland, Australia, the UK, etc. But
> these are not coming to the US for the most part.
> If you had people of "high class" with means coming to the US from
> places such as Belgium or the Netherlands, etc, there would not be an
> assimilation issue- they would all assimilate very quickly. But people
> from those countries rarely want to come- life is better there than in
> the US now.
> The US immigration quotas favor non-white people from very different
> cultures for whom the Anglo-based culture is not easy to learn, plus
> they would not really be accepted into the mainstream even if they
> wanted to. Racism is still strong- from the whites, the blacks and even
> other immigrants who had come before them.
> 5) The US now is not about culture, assimilation, etc. It is mostly
> about making money. So, people concentrate on that. Prices are high,
> rents are high. People work to make ends meet. Some work to save for
> school, cars, apartments, etc. Cultural and language studies are
> secondary.
> Thus, assimilation is left to its own devices and it will take its
> natural course- two or three generations. Just like it has with most
> other assimilated immigrants' children whom you see around you. So,
> immigrants are assimilating, at their own pace, although you may not
> see it. Just like you cannot see grass grow. First they will learn
> accented English, then, have American-born children; and those, in
> turn, will have American-born children-these will be completely
> American. It is simply taking the usual 30-50 years as prescribed in an
> unwritten way by the American culture for all those who are not Anglos,
> whether white or black.
>
Know why? Because there were few others who could speak and read English.
<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected] oups.com...
> There has been a lot of debate as to why immigrants will not assimilate
> into the American culture.
> However, all those who are now assimilated children of immigrants seem
> to have forgotten how long it took their families to assimilate.
> I am sure it was not done in 2-3 years or even one generation. But even
> if they could assimilate rather quickly, here are some of the reasons
> why the present ones are not assimilating as quickly as you may wish
> they would.
> 1) Socially, the American society is not very accepting of people with
> foreign accents (except British colonial, soft North European- Swedish,
> Norwegian etc,. and a gentle French accent). Learning to speak a
> language without an accent is a very difficult proposition after the
> age of 12. If you have an accent, ostracism or mockery is very common.
> Scorn for and phobia of other cultures and languages is common, too.
> Many people do not want to be mocked and ridiculed (do you?), so they
> stick to their own kind.
> I remember in NY, where I used to live, it was common for kids not to
> play with someone whose parents had an accent. This is how bad it can
> get.
> Latin American societies such as Brazil or Argentina, on the other
> hand, are much less anal about such things and if you have an accent it
> is no big deal. Hence, there you have people who came at a more mature
> age and found a society that is far less suspicious and more embracing.
> After a person becomes a citizen of Argentina, he is called an
> Argentinean and that's that. Accent or no accent. But try speaking with
> an accent to a bunch of working class Americans. Suspicious looks and
> frowns will abound. And few if any will see you as an American.
> 2) The Anglo-Saxon culture of the US is cliquish and not very friendly;
> socially that is. The laws are very generous and the Constitution is
> superb. A great friendly government, but many people are very much into
> their small groups. Breaking into those groups is not an easy task. So,
> many people just don't bother- they have other priorities.
> 3) Nativism; "American means: born here!" I remember a very classical
> example of how it works: I was at work and one employee called me a
> "foreigner" in an unfriendly way. Actually, this had happened more than
> once. He had found out that I was not born in the US because I am
> fluent in many languages and the 'terrible truth' had surfaced. Then,
> when I answered- "I am not a foreigner, but a US citizen", a pat answer
> came my way: "I mean a foreigner; not born here!". This attitude is
> very common in the US, although, admittedly, not all people adhere to
> it- there are some nice people that see you as someone who 'became' an
> American. But socially, unless you are British or Aussie who turned
> into an American and have no accent now, you will not really be seen as
> such by many common people in the US.
> Just look at the websites that have been organized to stymie Arnold
> Schwarzenegger's alleged bid for US presidency.
> They are calling him a "foreigner" even though he is a US citizen and
> had taken the Oath of Renunciation without which one cannot become one.
> Such an attitude is 'very' widespread in the US.
> There is also an ingrained social way of looking at immigrants. In the
> American culture people do not ask you "Are you a US citizen?" they
> ask you "Where are you from (originally)?". Once you tell them,
> bingo! You are an immigrant to many (if not most) people. And it does
> not matter how long you have been in the country and if you are US
> citizen.
> And also, the US media simply loves to attach the title "German- born",
> "Russian-born", etc. to anyone who was not born in the US. Even if they
> are US citizens. And God forbid if you do something bad- immediately
> the word "immigrant" surfaces. Remember Zsa Zsa when she slapped that
> policeman? The judge was telling her "It is like you slapped every
> American!" meaning in a subtle way she was 'not' an American. Some
> huckler started yelling " Go back to Hungary" at the hearing, too.
> In Argentina or Brazil, no. Look at Carlos Gardel- the famous tango
> composer. He is referred to as an Argentinean even though he was
> French-born. Few even talk about his foreign birth. But in America, it
> is an issue. At least one that is worth mentioning.
> There is no difference in the popular culture and understanding between
> a legal immigrant, illegal immigrant and a naturalized US citizen as
> far as the working masses of the US population go. They are all the
> same. And then they have censuses of the foreign born population in
> which the above categories are dumped into one.
> 4) The class of people that would want to come and live in the US is
> usually that of people in economic need or refugees. Refugees do not
> really 'want' to be in the US. Coming was a necessity; not a need. It
> is just that they were unfortunate enough to be in very bad
> circumstances, and although they are grateful to the US government for
> all the benefits, emotionally they are still attached to their country.
> Add to that the social (not the official) hostility against them and
> you have a recipe for multiculturalism.
> The other, very poor people may not have the smarts (and the IQ) to go
> to school and assimilate. And even if young you would not want to be a
> kid with an accent at a US school. I have been one and you are harassed
> very often and can get beat up. Young American kids can be nasty. You
> will have no friends, no dates, nothing. Unless of course you are from
> a popular country such as Switzerland, Australia, the UK, etc. But
> these are not coming to the US for the most part.
> If you had people of "high class" with means coming to the US from
> places such as Belgium or the Netherlands, etc, there would not be an
> assimilation issue- they would all assimilate very quickly. But people
> from those countries rarely want to come- life is better there than in
> the US now.
> The US immigration quotas favor non-white people from very different
> cultures for whom the Anglo-based culture is not easy to learn, plus
> they would not really be accepted into the mainstream even if they
> wanted to. Racism is still strong- from the whites, the blacks and even
> other immigrants who had come before them.
> 5) The US now is not about culture, assimilation, etc. It is mostly
> about making money. So, people concentrate on that. Prices are high,
> rents are high. People work to make ends meet. Some work to save for
> school, cars, apartments, etc. Cultural and language studies are
> secondary.
> Thus, assimilation is left to its own devices and it will take its
> natural course- two or three generations. Just like it has with most
> other assimilated immigrants' children whom you see around you. So,
> immigrants are assimilating, at their own pace, although you may not
> see it. Just like you cannot see grass grow. First they will learn
> accented English, then, have American-born children; and those, in
> turn, will have American-born children-these will be completely
> American. It is simply taking the usual 30-50 years as prescribed in an
> unwritten way by the American culture for all those who are not Anglos,
> whether white or black.
>
Apr 3rd 2006, 4:50 pm
#9
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Why Immigrants Won't Assimilate
Frank Arthur wrote:
> Before WWII most cops in NYC were Irish.
> Know why? Because there were few others who could speak and read English.
Big ****in' deal, Senyor. Their kids spoke perfect English and were
intrumental in carrying on and contributing to USA society.
I see no such desire from Hispanicks for their kids to learn and use
English. All because they won;t allow their kids to speak the language
of the people they see to be the hated historic rivals of their beloved
Spaniards, the "Anglos", because they are too proud to do so.
> Before WWII most cops in NYC were Irish.
> Know why? Because there were few others who could speak and read English.
Big ****in' deal, Senyor. Their kids spoke perfect English and were
intrumental in carrying on and contributing to USA society.
I see no such desire from Hispanicks for their kids to learn and use
English. All because they won;t allow their kids to speak the language
of the people they see to be the hated historic rivals of their beloved
Spaniards, the "Anglos", because they are too proud to do so.
Apr 5th 2006, 10:46 am
#10
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Why Immigrants Won't Assimilate
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
[email protected] wrote:
> There has been a lot of debate as to why immigrants will not assimilate
> into the American culture.
>
> However, all those who are now assimilated children of immigrants seem
> to have forgotten how long it took their families to assimilate.
>
> I am sure it was not done in 2-3 years or even one generation.
When I went to high school in Seattle in the 1980s, there was a lot of
talk about immigrants, and how they'd never learn English, take away
American jobs, rely on welfare, would never assimilate, and generally
just should go home.
Exactly what we hear today. Except that back then home was Vietnam.
Look at them today. Assimilation took much less than one generation.
It's a non-issue.
- --
Please visit my FAQ at http://www.kkeane.com before asking a question.
It may answer your question. Remember, I am strictly a layperson without
any legal training. I encourage the reader to seek competent legal
counsel rather than relying on usenet newsgroups.
NOTICE: Due to Presidential Executive Orders, the National Security
Agency may have read this email without warning, warrant, or notice.
They may do this without any judicial or legislative oversight. You
have no recourse nor protection save to call for the impeachment of
the current President.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.0 (MingW32)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org
iD8DBQFEM6AJ2STeoAchQDkRAkvOAJ0aY+Jq9RwCa86OC/3DXcvC/HtYeACeLImS
gcxUkU39SeSfcoZ1u3kEvso=
=Qihc
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
Hash: SHA1
[email protected] wrote:
> There has been a lot of debate as to why immigrants will not assimilate
> into the American culture.
>
> However, all those who are now assimilated children of immigrants seem
> to have forgotten how long it took their families to assimilate.
>
> I am sure it was not done in 2-3 years or even one generation.
When I went to high school in Seattle in the 1980s, there was a lot of
talk about immigrants, and how they'd never learn English, take away
American jobs, rely on welfare, would never assimilate, and generally
just should go home.
Exactly what we hear today. Except that back then home was Vietnam.
Look at them today. Assimilation took much less than one generation.
It's a non-issue.
- --
Please visit my FAQ at http://www.kkeane.com before asking a question.
It may answer your question. Remember, I am strictly a layperson without
any legal training. I encourage the reader to seek competent legal
counsel rather than relying on usenet newsgroups.
NOTICE: Due to Presidential Executive Orders, the National Security
Agency may have read this email without warning, warrant, or notice.
They may do this without any judicial or legislative oversight. You
have no recourse nor protection save to call for the impeachment of
the current President.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.0 (MingW32)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org
iD8DBQFEM6AJ2STeoAchQDkRAkvOAJ0aY+Jq9RwCa86OC/3DXcvC/HtYeACeLImS
gcxUkU39SeSfcoZ1u3kEvso=
=Qihc
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
Apr 5th 2006, 2:50 pm
#11
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Why Immigrants Won't Assimilate
On Wed, 05 Apr 2006 03:46:33 -0700, "Kevin Keane (see Web site for
email)" <[email protected]> wrote:
>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>Hash: SHA1
>[email protected] wrote:
>> There has been a lot of debate as to why immigrants will not assimilate
>> into the American culture.
>>
>> However, all those who are now assimilated children of immigrants seem
>> to have forgotten how long it took their families to assimilate.
>>
>> I am sure it was not done in 2-3 years or even one generation.
>When I went to high school in Seattle in the 1980s, there was a lot of
>talk about immigrants, and how they'd never learn English, take away
>American jobs, rely on welfare, would never assimilate, and generally
>just should go home.
>Exactly what we hear today. Except that back then home was Vietnam.
>Look at them today. Assimilation took much less than one generation.
>It's a non-issue.
That would be why several generations of Mexicans still refuse and
some can't speak English, because they assimilated so well. LOLOLOL
Ignorance abounds in these groups.
email)" <[email protected]> wrote:
>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>Hash: SHA1
>[email protected] wrote:
>> There has been a lot of debate as to why immigrants will not assimilate
>> into the American culture.
>>
>> However, all those who are now assimilated children of immigrants seem
>> to have forgotten how long it took their families to assimilate.
>>
>> I am sure it was not done in 2-3 years or even one generation.
>When I went to high school in Seattle in the 1980s, there was a lot of
>talk about immigrants, and how they'd never learn English, take away
>American jobs, rely on welfare, would never assimilate, and generally
>just should go home.
>Exactly what we hear today. Except that back then home was Vietnam.
>Look at them today. Assimilation took much less than one generation.
>It's a non-issue.
That would be why several generations of Mexicans still refuse and
some can't speak English, because they assimilated so well. LOLOLOL
Ignorance abounds in these groups.
Apr 5th 2006, 3:36 pm
#12
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Why Immigrants Won't Assimilate
The jet plane and satellite dish changed assimilation.
Assimilation has to be divided into psychophysiological issues and
political issues.
Generally those who are highly competent in their original language
adopt English with high competency as well (my immigrant parents
corrected the spelling of my USA-born English teacher). But those who
are marginally competent in ANY language cling more strongly,
creolise, and make excuses for not replacing something they don't
really have. (I've tried to decode a Chinese menu only to have the
store owners admit they can't read it.)
American politicians have an interest in keeping large numbers of
non-voting unassimilated immigrants in their districts. If they don't
vote, your campaign costs go down. If they are present in large
numbers even if illegal, they count for redistricting. This is why
they deliberately fund ethnic action centers and whatnot. To keep the
poor immigrants unEnglished, dumb and obedient (loud only on cue).
- = -
Vasos-Peter John Panagiotopoulos II, Columbia'81+, Bio$trategist
BachMozart ReaganQuayle EvrytanoKastorian
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/vjp2/vasos.htm
---{Nothing herein constitutes advice. Everything fully disclaimed.}---
[Urb sprawl confounds terror] [Remorse begets zeal] [Windows is for Bimbos]
[Homeland Security means private firearms not lazy obstructive guards]
Assimilation has to be divided into psychophysiological issues and
political issues.
Generally those who are highly competent in their original language
adopt English with high competency as well (my immigrant parents
corrected the spelling of my USA-born English teacher). But those who
are marginally competent in ANY language cling more strongly,
creolise, and make excuses for not replacing something they don't
really have. (I've tried to decode a Chinese menu only to have the
store owners admit they can't read it.)
American politicians have an interest in keeping large numbers of
non-voting unassimilated immigrants in their districts. If they don't
vote, your campaign costs go down. If they are present in large
numbers even if illegal, they count for redistricting. This is why
they deliberately fund ethnic action centers and whatnot. To keep the
poor immigrants unEnglished, dumb and obedient (loud only on cue).
- = -
Vasos-Peter John Panagiotopoulos II, Columbia'81+, Bio$trategist
BachMozart ReaganQuayle EvrytanoKastorian
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/vjp2/vasos.htm
---{Nothing herein constitutes advice. Everything fully disclaimed.}---
[Urb sprawl confounds terror] [Remorse begets zeal] [Windows is for Bimbos]
[Homeland Security means private firearms not lazy obstructive guards]
Apr 5th 2006, 3:36 pm
#13
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Why Immigrants Won't Assimilate
For all the problems with illegal immigration, I fear Green-carders
more. Illegal immigrants WANT to be here. Green-carders think it is
beneath them to apply for citisenship and look at becoming American
with disdain. Yet they stay for decades and never learn the language.
That attitude of disdain harbors terrorists more than illegals and it
is the Green-carders who set up and maintain anti-assimilationist
institutions. The jet plane and the satellite dish have changed the
old paradigm of assimilation. I believe Green Cards should be limited
to seven years, unrenewably and require an English test. It is ironic
that this suggestion, what I see as "moderate" reform, seems lost in
the fog of the opposing extremes. But if you look at how Giuliani's
policing quality-of-life crimes reduced crime overall (because they
guy who littered also committed other crimes), you should suspect
Green-card reform would solve more problems in the long run. Don't
think the old granma housing illegals and teaching them to hate
America is really as harmless as she looks; Without her, the
terrorists would be homeless and perhaps uninspired.
Then think of something else: is one Kerry/Blue voter worth two
Bush/Red voters? Well, congressional reapportionment doesn't just
count citisens, it also counts legal and illegal aliens. THey may not
vote, but they are used to weight the legislative vote. In fact,
urban political machines play this up by setting up unelected
"neighborhood" organisations to herd immigrants, delay their
assimilation, but keep them vocal enough to frighten conservatives
into inaction. Lincoln objected that slave states could count
non-voting slaves as 3/5 a person to up their census count for
reapportionment. Well, today, illegal aliens count in the census for
reapportionment. The LiverHole DumbOClucks, ever since Andrew Jackson,
have been wise to this. This is why they fund "neighborhood action"
groups for every ethnic minority, to keep them from learning English,
from becoming citisens, from assimilating, from straying too far, but
most importantly from VOTING. See, if they become Americans, they just
might have a mind of their own and vote the rascals out.
- = -
Vasos-Peter John Panagiotopoulos II, Columbia'81+, Bio$trategist
BachMozart ReaganQuayle EvrytanoKastorian
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/vjp2/vasos.htm
---{Nothing herein constitutes advice. Everything fully disclaimed.}---
[Urb sprawl confounds terror] [Remorse begets zeal] [Windows is for Bimbos]
[Homeland Security means private firearms not lazy obstructive guards]
more. Illegal immigrants WANT to be here. Green-carders think it is
beneath them to apply for citisenship and look at becoming American
with disdain. Yet they stay for decades and never learn the language.
That attitude of disdain harbors terrorists more than illegals and it
is the Green-carders who set up and maintain anti-assimilationist
institutions. The jet plane and the satellite dish have changed the
old paradigm of assimilation. I believe Green Cards should be limited
to seven years, unrenewably and require an English test. It is ironic
that this suggestion, what I see as "moderate" reform, seems lost in
the fog of the opposing extremes. But if you look at how Giuliani's
policing quality-of-life crimes reduced crime overall (because they
guy who littered also committed other crimes), you should suspect
Green-card reform would solve more problems in the long run. Don't
think the old granma housing illegals and teaching them to hate
America is really as harmless as she looks; Without her, the
terrorists would be homeless and perhaps uninspired.
Then think of something else: is one Kerry/Blue voter worth two
Bush/Red voters? Well, congressional reapportionment doesn't just
count citisens, it also counts legal and illegal aliens. THey may not
vote, but they are used to weight the legislative vote. In fact,
urban political machines play this up by setting up unelected
"neighborhood" organisations to herd immigrants, delay their
assimilation, but keep them vocal enough to frighten conservatives
into inaction. Lincoln objected that slave states could count
non-voting slaves as 3/5 a person to up their census count for
reapportionment. Well, today, illegal aliens count in the census for
reapportionment. The LiverHole DumbOClucks, ever since Andrew Jackson,
have been wise to this. This is why they fund "neighborhood action"
groups for every ethnic minority, to keep them from learning English,
from becoming citisens, from assimilating, from straying too far, but
most importantly from VOTING. See, if they become Americans, they just
might have a mind of their own and vote the rascals out.
- = -
Vasos-Peter John Panagiotopoulos II, Columbia'81+, Bio$trategist
BachMozart ReaganQuayle EvrytanoKastorian
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/vjp2/vasos.htm
---{Nothing herein constitutes advice. Everything fully disclaimed.}---
[Urb sprawl confounds terror] [Remorse begets zeal] [Windows is for Bimbos]
[Homeland Security means private firearms not lazy obstructive guards]
Apr 5th 2006, 5:19 pm
#14
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Why Immigrants Won't Assimilate
"Kevin Keane (see Web site for email)" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:6eNYf.9374$9h5.8030@dukeread09...
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
> Exactly what we hear today. Except that back then home was Vietnam.
> Look at them today. Assimilation took much less than one generation.
> It's a non-issue.
You're comparing apples with oranges.
The Vietnamese knew they HAD to assimilate because they
COULDN'T return to their homeland anytime soon.
Many Vietnamese haven't "assimilated" they have accepted their fate.
Not so with Juan and Maria who can be home in Pileocaca
Mexico in 12 hours.
Xeno
news:6eNYf.9374$9h5.8030@dukeread09...
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
> Exactly what we hear today. Except that back then home was Vietnam.
> Look at them today. Assimilation took much less than one generation.
> It's a non-issue.
You're comparing apples with oranges.
The Vietnamese knew they HAD to assimilate because they
COULDN'T return to their homeland anytime soon.
Many Vietnamese haven't "assimilated" they have accepted their fate.
Not so with Juan and Maria who can be home in Pileocaca
Mexico in 12 hours.
Xeno
Apr 15th 2006, 11:38 am
#15
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Why Immigrants Won't Assimilate
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
Graphic Queen wrote:
> On Wed, 05 Apr 2006 03:46:33 -0700, "Kevin Keane (see Web site for
> email)" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>> Hash: SHA1
>> [email protected] wrote:
>>> There has been a lot of debate as to why immigrants will not assimilate
>>> into the American culture.
>>> However, all those who are now assimilated children of immigrants seem
>>> to have forgotten how long it took their families to assimilate.
>>> I am sure it was not done in 2-3 years or even one generation.
>> When I went to high school in Seattle in the 1980s, there was a lot of
>> talk about immigrants, and how they'd never learn English, take away
>> American jobs, rely on welfare, would never assimilate, and generally
>> just should go home.
>> Exactly what we hear today. Except that back then home was Vietnam.
>> Look at them today. Assimilation took much less than one generation.
>> It's a non-issue.
>
> That would be why several generations of Mexicans still refuse and
> some can't speak English, because they assimilated so well. LOLOLOL
Several generations? For a group of people that started arriving in the
1990s? Those who arrived in the 1980s and earlier are mostly citizens by
now (thanks to the 1986 amnesty), and have proven their knowledge of
English and of the Constitution in their citizenship test.
- --
Please visit my FAQ at http://www.kkeane.com before asking a question.
It may answer your question. Remember, I am strictly a layperson without
any legal training. I encourage the reader to seek competent legal
counsel rather than relying on usenet newsgroups.
NOTICE: Due to Presidential Executive Orders, the National Security
Agency may have read this email without warning, warrant, or notice.
They may do this without any judicial or legislative oversight. You
have no recourse nor protection save to call for the impeachment of
the current President.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.0 (MingW32)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org
iD8DBQFEQNsi2STeoAchQDkRAicxAKCuNJG1pCI7OpNILNQFkf uHO1Y5dACeJozC
Jr35SqP0WvtVFrsYtiFws6s=
=1RTs
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
Hash: SHA1
Graphic Queen wrote:
> On Wed, 05 Apr 2006 03:46:33 -0700, "Kevin Keane (see Web site for
> email)" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>> Hash: SHA1
>> [email protected] wrote:
>>> There has been a lot of debate as to why immigrants will not assimilate
>>> into the American culture.
>>> However, all those who are now assimilated children of immigrants seem
>>> to have forgotten how long it took their families to assimilate.
>>> I am sure it was not done in 2-3 years or even one generation.
>> When I went to high school in Seattle in the 1980s, there was a lot of
>> talk about immigrants, and how they'd never learn English, take away
>> American jobs, rely on welfare, would never assimilate, and generally
>> just should go home.
>> Exactly what we hear today. Except that back then home was Vietnam.
>> Look at them today. Assimilation took much less than one generation.
>> It's a non-issue.
>
> That would be why several generations of Mexicans still refuse and
> some can't speak English, because they assimilated so well. LOLOLOL
Several generations? For a group of people that started arriving in the
1990s? Those who arrived in the 1980s and earlier are mostly citizens by
now (thanks to the 1986 amnesty), and have proven their knowledge of
English and of the Constitution in their citizenship test.
- --
Please visit my FAQ at http://www.kkeane.com before asking a question.
It may answer your question. Remember, I am strictly a layperson without
any legal training. I encourage the reader to seek competent legal
counsel rather than relying on usenet newsgroups.
NOTICE: Due to Presidential Executive Orders, the National Security
Agency may have read this email without warning, warrant, or notice.
They may do this without any judicial or legislative oversight. You
have no recourse nor protection save to call for the impeachment of
the current President.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
Version: GnuPG v1.4.0 (MingW32)
Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org
iD8DBQFEQNsi2STeoAchQDkRAicxAKCuNJG1pCI7OpNILNQFkf uHO1Y5dACeJozC
Jr35SqP0WvtVFrsYtiFws6s=
=1RTs
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
