Very low - what should we do ?
#61
BE Enthusiast
Thread Starter
Joined: Jan 2011
Location: West Sussex - did 3 years in the US...
Posts: 577
Re: Very low - what should we do ?
Yes ! My wife and her family are all educated, reasonable people but to hear them talk about the US in the manner they do you know they all have an unquestioning belief in everything that's been drilled in to them. It is extremely alarming.
In the US (and Oz - the only other one that I can use from personal experience) I think it forms a constant reminder of "we all must band together." I certainly don't feel that about the UK - we can all differ if we want, criticise, whinge, carp, but underneath, we have hundreds of years of stability and nation that underpins it. I don't need to fly the Union Flag to be British. I just am.
One thing I can't stand is pure ignorance - lack of knowledge of the outside world followed by criticism of all things non-US. I had that from a co-worker the other day who, in his late 50s, has never been outside the US, does not hold a passport, and launched into telling me how "much better" the US was than ANY country. That just shows a lack of discretion and is downright impolite and disrespectful, but has not been an uncommon experience amongst the "borne-and-bred." I would never dream to lecture anyone on how much "better" the UK was than anywhere else - I have been to everywhere else to compare it !
I'm wondering if maybe your attitude to the country is determined by your status as an immigrant. I'm here on an L1 for a specific purpose within my company. My standard of living in the UK was certainly as-good as it is here - possibly even slightly better in terms of the public services provided. I don't feel that I have moved here to "make it" in the US - I'm here to carry out tasks for my company, some of which are around getting international influence into what has become a very inward-focused organisation. However, an awful lot of my co-workers appear to be here primarily to "better" themselves, escape their home country, make money, make a career. Many of the countries they come from have no social security net, no health system, rubbish public transport, etc. Maybe in that case, the US does just look great, and you would not be inclined to criticise.
All the opinions on here are really welcome - we are both (myself plus wife) feeling very alienated at the moment ! 5 months is not a long time. This weekend we've just said "Oh Sod It" and booked to stay in SF for the weekend. We're going to treat our time here as an extended holiday, and if we get assimilated into the Collective on the way, so be it.
Thanks for being my Analyst !
#62
BE Enthusiast
Joined: Jan 2011
Location: Carlsbad , Ca
Posts: 472
Re: Very low - what should we do ?
When Americans ask me how I like it here ( never if ) I usually will reply honestly by saying "Like everywhere it has it's good & bad points" .
Most often this will be met with a confused silence and / or suspicious looks
Most often this will be met with a confused silence and / or suspicious looks
#63
Re: Very low - what should we do ?
Well the SNP made large gains in the last election and if the referendum on Scottish independence passes we are going to have to find something else to wave pretty sharpish.
Last edited by HumphreyC; May 11th 2011 at 7:43 pm.
#64
Re: Very low - what should we do ?
Let me give you an example. The cell network in america over overpriced, and I've owned cell phones in UK, Spain, Australia and America on pay as you go plans. America is the only place that has ever charged me for incoming calls or texts. Something I can't control. Do Americans jump up and down and say this stinks? No, and the reason for this is because they don't compare what they have with other countries. or if they do, it's never considered that someone else could do it better.
Healthcare on the other hand is somewhere where American can take the experience of other countries to come up with a better system - although a lot of the comparison that was done was scare-mongering. Maybe not a problem with patriotism per se but the way the right wing media manipulates the public.
#66
Joined: Aug 2004
Location: Eugene, OR
Posts: 1,352
Re: Very low - what should we do ?
I heard a brief story once about an exchange student in America who was asked by an American whether she liked it better here or at home. Clearly the American expected "oh, here, definitely!" as the answer. It...was not. Awkwardness ensured.
#68
Re: Very low - what should we do ?
#69
Country Member
Joined: May 2003
Location: Moved from Georgetown to Round Rock, Texas. 15 miles closer to civilization.
Posts: 936
Re: Very low - what should we do ?
#70
Country Member
Joined: May 2003
Location: Moved from Georgetown to Round Rock, Texas. 15 miles closer to civilization.
Posts: 936
Re: Very low - what should we do ?
Don't confuse patriotism with the belief that you or your nation are superior to everyone else.
I have no problem with people who are proud of their heritage. I do have a problem with people who think they are superior to everyone else just because of where they are born.
I have no problem with people who are proud of their heritage. I do have a problem with people who think they are superior to everyone else just because of where they are born.
#72
Re: Very low - what should we do ?
This is one of my biggest reservations about moving back to the UK. What a gormless prick.
#73
Re: Very low - what should we do ?
Ah well that's where I'm going wrong then !
I must say I have become more patriotic having lived away from the UK in both OZ & US. I now feel very proud to be British and feel very, very lucky to have been born & brought up in England.
Do I qualify for a sub category ?? Not blind patriotism but logical patriotism
I must say I have become more patriotic having lived away from the UK in both OZ & US. I now feel very proud to be British and feel very, very lucky to have been born & brought up in England.
Do I qualify for a sub category ?? Not blind patriotism but logical patriotism
I like it.
but underneath, we have hundreds of years of stability and nation that underpins it. I don't need to fly the Union Flag to be British. I just am.
I would never dream to lecture anyone on how much "better" the UK was than anywhere else - I have been to everywhere else to compare it !
I would never dream to lecture anyone on how much "better" the UK was than anywhere else - I have been to everywhere else to compare it !
1) I was just reading a journalist's musings on turning 70. He said "To be 70 is to have lived 30 percent of the life of this nation.." As you note, you have hundreds of years of commonality behind you. And trust me, there is some baggage that goes with that as well.
Second thought (related to second part of the quoted reply)... but, um, you *are* sort of doing that. I know if feels like you "know" America, but you don't have the experience to make the comparisons you are. I personally think it is more complex than you're making it out.
You might like the entire section of George Will's, that I snipped that line about being 70 from. My bold:
"To be 70 is to have lived 30 percent of the life of this nation, which is almost enough time to begin to fully appreciate the inestimable privilege of being a legatee of those who first unfurled the republic's sails and steered it toward the present. That is why -- with homage to F. Scott Fitzgerald -- as we beat on, boats against the current, we should be borne back ceaselessly into the American past: It is impossible for the young to know, but never too late to learn, that America truly is something -- perhaps the only thing -- commensurate with our capacity for wonder."
#74
BE Enthusiast
Thread Starter
Joined: Jan 2011
Location: West Sussex - did 3 years in the US...
Posts: 577
Re: Very low - what should we do ?
you don't have the experience to make the comparisons you are. I personally think it is more complex than you're making it out.
Yes - you are right.... But I don't think the UK is the "greatest" country in the world and go around telling everyone so !
I can see that we're going to have to get out more and explore - the previous suggestions for meetup.com, local soccer teams, etc are already paying off, and we are starting to make contact.
We're back in the UK over the summer - four weeks at one of our favourite places that we keep going back to year after year - Southwold on the Suffolk coast. I wonder how things will seem !
Last edited by dlake02; May 11th 2011 at 11:30 pm.
#75
Re: Very low - what should we do ?
(BTW, that last part should have said that I haven't been to everywhere else to compare it)
Yes - you are right.... But I don't think the UK is the "greatest" country in the world and go around telling everyone so !
I can see that we're going to have to get out more and explore - the previous suggestions for meetup.com, local soccer teams, etc are already paying off, and we are starting to make contact.
We're back in the UK over the summer - four weeks at one of our favourite places that we keep going back to year after year - Southwold on the Suffolk coast. I wonder how things will seem !
Yes - you are right.... But I don't think the UK is the "greatest" country in the world and go around telling everyone so !
I can see that we're going to have to get out more and explore - the previous suggestions for meetup.com, local soccer teams, etc are already paying off, and we are starting to make contact.
We're back in the UK over the summer - four weeks at one of our favourite places that we keep going back to year after year - Southwold on the Suffolk coast. I wonder how things will seem !