MarylandNed

I know what you're saying and I sort of agree. However, assuming that the kids are already UK citizens by descent, I think I'd go for the US anyway and get US citizenship for the kids. That will open more doors later in life. Having already done that for my kids, I don't think you could drag me to NYC now though. Great place to visit but I just could not afford to live there (in an area that I would like to live in at least). Having said that, I am much more familiar with London (having lived there before) but maybe if I knew NYC and its suburbs better, I would be more comfortable with choosing NYC instead.

misplacedheidi

I lived in Switzerland for 3 years - it is lovely.
Our kids were in the International School system.
I also had friends in the local system.

Would highly recommend it!

Nutmegger

The OP mentioned Greenwich, CT, which is a lovely place to live, with excellent schools, if it is within the budget, and an easy commute to Grand Central. Ditto New Canaan, Wilton, and, a little further out if a family member is commuting into NYC every day, Ridgefield and Redding.

Bob

Same around where I am :/

kodokan

Classes around me are about 25, and they don't seem over-fussy about kids taking regular term-time vacations (I've seen plenty of others do it, although we never have; my neighbor takes her kids out of school for a few days before every major holiday. I've broken it to her that it'll likely need to stop when her boy goes up to middle school next year, if she doesn't want him to fail course credits on the 'sorry, you missed 10 classes without a doctor's note' basis).

Canveydave

As someone who has recently moved from the London suburbs and worked in London, has two young children as well, I would not go back to London for all the tea in China.

I haven't spent much time in New York, or the New York suburbs, but I find it hard to believe it is any worse than London is now. This is obviously my personal opinion and some people love it, but for me the standard of living is average at best.

The education system we have encountered out here so far is definitely better than the state education we got in the UK for our children

Good luck with your decision

Pulaski

My experience of living in London and New York is now 15 years old, but New York was horrible compared to London where I lived immediately before. The cost of housing is higher in New York, property taxes are "off the chart", and public transport in New York is dirty, noisy, expensive, and infrequent, and the subway in Manhattan appears to have been designed to make it impossible to get from wherever you are to wherever you want to get to without having to change trains at least once.

If you have the income New York might be OK, but as I have said before on BE, and to friends and colleagues, I won't rule out ever going back to New York for work, but it would have to be for 3-4 times what I was paid the last time I worked there.

That said, I mostly agree with you Dave, because in my opinion I wouldn't want to live in London or New York with a family.

NiHao

I don't have any experience of US High Schools but with Primary/Elementary I personally prefer the UK. That said I think it really depends on the individual school, there are fantastic schools in both countries (both Elementary, Middle & HS) but there are also really dreadful ones in both countries.

If your income is going to allow you some flexibility on exactly which town you live in NY/NJ/CT or London/surrounding area then I think you would be able to find great schools for your children in either location.

So with that said I would use other factors to help you choose which country. They are actually very different to each other so once you take the focus away from only thinking about schooling you will probably find you get a gut feeling about which country is a better fit for you. Living abroad with other expats do you find yourself "clicking" more with American expats or British/European? That might be an indicator of which country is a better fit for your family.

Weather
Cost of housing
Access to hobbys/leisure pursuits that you enjoy.
How do you feel about access to health care, gun control, religion, these are all areas where the two countries differ a lot.

Have you visited either country? Any chance of making a visit if you haven't already?

You have two amazing locations to choose from and if the move is to be for only a few years than you absolutely wouldn't go wrong with either. If you see it as being a very long term/permanent move then I think looking at overall lifestyle, not just schools, will give you your answer.

p.s It might be worth posting your question in the "Moving back to the UK" section also where you may get some more feedback from people who have moved back to the UK from the US (and whose children have experienced both school systems).

KateSH

Thank you NiHao, and all other contributors. This is such an amazing forum.
In my 12 years as an expat, I am definitely more drawn to British culture, perhaps because it is my family background, and perhaps because I have lived in London for two years. But perhaps the US could be something interesting and new.
I will post on moving back to the UK and see what responses I get there. Thank you for the tip.
We have just received word that our children are likely to gain a place at an independent school in Kent. It is Methodist affiliated, which is not at all my preference (being of no faith), but I really like the sound of the school and it sounds possibly ideal for our eldest son.
Almost everyone talks about the high cost of living in NY or surrounding areas. Perhaps my calculations are wrong but I had thought it would be no higher than the UK, particularly given that we will send our boys to government school in the US (the schools in Summit and Greenwhich where we are looking rank high and are accessible), whereas they will go to a fee paying school in the UK (largely because we have missed the cut off and because we want to live in a good catchment area and so this reduces our chances of government school - at least for the first year).
So I am interested, and I know this will be entirely subjective and based on the lifestyle people lead, but does anyone have a ball park figure for what a family would need to earn to live comfortably in London (I am looking at Chislehurst) with private education thrown in (15,000-20,000 pounds per year for two children) compared to living in either Greenwich (CT) or Summit (NJ) with no school fees? Your comments on cost of living have been helpful, but I need to get a better idea about actual figures.
Thank you.

Bob

Something to consider, even in the state schools, all the donations and other contributions you are usually on the hook for at every opportunity. After school programs, especially over the summer also often tend to cost a fair bit of cash. Obviously, that'll depend on what they're interested in doing and there might be "low" cost town options, but it's something to look into and budget for.

city-data.com is another site that's worth a look for cost of living as well as the salary type sites such as glassdoor.com and salary.com

KateSH

Thank you Bob.

kodokan

Other useful place research sites, if you haven't come across them already:

Compare Cities

Get Your Livability Score & Find The Best Places To Live - AreaVibes

Cost of Living

retzie

Looking ahead, what about a job for you? You mention you're finishing a PhD, so how specialised a job would you be looking at when you hit the job market? If you're in finance, either city will deliver, but you may find different areas have much better markets in one city/country or the other. Academic jobs, for example, will be very different in the two countries.

Regarding affordability: personally, I think NYC is not as bad as it's made out to be. A good friend of mine from London, who also lives here, puts it thus: "In NYC, you can always find somewhere more affordable to live, by going somewhere less fancy. In London, there is no 'New Jersey'." He bought a nice apartment in Brooklyn, on a subway line, within 30 minutes of midtown, for LESS THAN $300K. The people who whine about extortionate rent/house prices are typically being fairly particular about their location.

Another thing to consider is with what type of people you would like to surround yourself? Personally, I can't stand Greenwich (rich, spoilt, white people), but if that's you, you might like that sort of thing! One of the things I like the most about NYC is its diversity, but you can certainly cloister yourself away from it.

I also feel obliged to mention (in the face of Pulaski's enduring scorn for the place) that the subway may not be shiny, but it is cheap, goes most places, and runs 24/7.


Btw, I'm from Melbourne, living the impoverished-NYC-academic dream

KateSH

Hi Retzie,
thank you for your email which has given me much food for thought. I am a fourth and "final" year PhD student in the social sciences - studying refugee settlement in Australia. It was never my intention to go into academia however as I reach the midway point of my thesis, I am becoming increasingly open to it. You said "academic jobs....will be very different in the two countries". Can you explain to me what you mean by that.

I am finding it very difficult to get consistent (correct) information on where I will stand visa wise for both the UK and US. My understanding is that I can work Ii.e. get a work visa as a dependent) in both places, though perhaps no more than 20 hours per week in the US. I am also aware that as an Australian, I can apply for a visa, which if memory serves me right, is called an E1 visa.

I do not plan to work for about a year while I finish writing my thesis and settle the children into their new environment. But I would very much like to work after that - preferably in the city for a policy/think tank like organisation, but also, as I say, in academia. For this reason I dont want us to live too far away, if it is the case that both my husband and I will be working in NY.

Diversity is my main concern with Greenwhich. It is on the list because visually it looks beautiful and I like the idea of being near the beach. But it is very important that our children grow up in a diverse environment, and therefore this is why I was thinking about Montclair. I have read also that Summit is not particularly diverse, but then the issue is that both Summit and Greenwhich have excellent schools. We thought about Brooklyn but as our children get older we feel more and more that space is important. Also, having lived in large, loud, crazy Asian cities for 12 years, we would like a bit of peace and quiet.

I would be very happy to hear from you regarding your experience with work visas and getting work in academia.

Thank you, Kate.

Btw, I too am from Melbourne.

Nutmegger

I'm afraid that what makes for a good school system -- a wealthy area with high property taxes, residents worried about both getting a good education for their children and keeping up the value of their homes via good schools -- also makes for a lack of diversity in Fairfield County, where Greenwich is located. In this area, at least, you will find that the best schools are not going to be very diverse, because they reflect the catchment areas in which they are located. You will find the diversity you want in NYC, but not the educational excellence, unless you spend a lot of money on a private school.