UK state pension and USA social security
#751
Re: UK state pension and USA social security
As when you are interviewed for your SS application you are asked to state that all answers are correct, and it is fully explained that you commit perjury if you knowingly give a false answer. One of the questions my wife was asked was if she received any pension(s) from the UK.
Therefore your suggestion not to say anything is about one of the most crass and stupid comments I have seen on BE. It is inciting others to commit a criminal act.
Therefore your suggestion not to say anything is about one of the most crass and stupid comments I have seen on BE. It is inciting others to commit a criminal act.
#752
Re: UK state pension and USA social security
If that is so and you had had a US Gov Pension, your 50% would then also be subject to GPO, which would be in effect a double reduction for you.
I believe the spousal pension is not subject to WEP, only subject to GPO, hence the question about "any other pension from the US".
#753
Re: UK state pension and USA social security
Keep both separate. Claim your UK pension using a UK address, and have it paid by direct credit. Don't talk about the US, just claim you UK pension as normal.
The same in the US, don't say anything about your UK pension.
Keep both separate, if you don't you will create a minefield for yourself.
The same in the US, don't say anything about your UK pension.
Keep both separate, if you don't you will create a minefield for yourself.
#754
Re: UK state pension and USA social security
Can you clarify that for me please? Are you saying your spousal pension is 50% of your wife's SS pension amount, after WEP reduction has been applied?
If that is so and you had had a US Gov Pension, your 50% would then also be subject to GPO, which would be in effect a double reduction for you.
If that is so and you had had a US Gov Pension, your 50% would then also be subject to GPO, which would be in effect a double reduction for you.
I believe the spousal pension is not subject to WEP, only subject to GPO, hence the question about "any other pension from the US".
Last edited by lansbury; Apr 21st 2015 at 4:34 pm.
#755
Forum Regular
Joined: Jun 2014
Location: Long Beach, CA
Posts: 94
Re: UK state pension and USA social security
Talked with a Pension officer in UK about the taxation aspect of weekly pension as well as a deferred one time lump sum. They told me that no tax deduction is made from the wekly pension and no tax will be decucted from the lump sum either. So, she said, I need not file 2002 or certificate of residency, to that matter. While the one time lump sum plus 1 month pension is just under the UK annual allowance, if i take into account the weekly pension to next April, added to the lump sum, it would slightly go over the UK annual alowance. So, I feel I still need to obtain further clarification on this. May be in writing. Any thoughts Lansbury, nun or any others?
#756
Re: UK state pension and USA social security
I've been sitting here thinking about this for about 15 minutes. If the UK pension office say they will not deduct tax from either weekly pension or lump sum, then I think it safe to assume they will not do so.
If HM tax man subsequently discovers that you have received over your personal allowance they might write and ask for the unpaid tax. Then you can either dispute you are liable to UK income tax as you live in the US, or pay it and tax a foreign tax deduction on your US tax return.
If HM tax man subsequently discovers that you have received over your personal allowance they might write and ask for the unpaid tax. Then you can either dispute you are liable to UK income tax as you live in the US, or pay it and tax a foreign tax deduction on your US tax return.
#757
Re: UK state pension and USA social security
Talked with a Pension officer in UK about the taxation aspect of weekly pension as well as a deferred one time lump sum. They told me that no tax deduction is made from the wekly pension and no tax will be decucted from the lump sum either. So, she said, I need not file 2002 or certificate of residency, to that matter. While the one time lump sum plus 1 month pension is just under the UK annual allowance, if i take into account the weekly pension to next April, added to the lump sum, it would slightly go over the UK annual allowance. So, I feel I still need to obtain further clarification on this. May be in writing. Any thoughts Lansbury, nun or any others?
Last edited by nun; Apr 22nd 2015 at 1:27 am.
#758
Re: UK state pension and USA social security
If HM tax man subsequently discovers that you have received over your personal allowance they might write and ask for the unpaid tax. Then you can either dispute you are liable to UK income tax as you live in the US, or pay it and tax a foreign tax deduction on your US tax return.
#760
Re: UK state pension and USA social security
Strictly speaking the treaty gives the US the sole taxation authority over UK state pensions paid to US residents. However, the IRS might give you credit if you filed a 1116 even though they don't have to if they apply the treaty.
#761
Forum Regular
Joined: Jun 2014
Location: Long Beach, CA
Posts: 94
Re: UK state pension and USA social security
Double check with HMRC that your tax code is NT, if it is there should be no need to do anything else. HMRC don't withhold tax from the state pension....they leave that up to UK private pension providers. You might also write on your state pension international application that because you are a US resident you are claiming exemption form UK tax on your pension under Article 17.3 of the US/UK double taxation treaty.
<HMRC don't withhold tax from the state pension....they leave that up to UK private pension providers..> I dont have a UK private Pension.
#762
Forum Regular
Joined: Jun 2014
Location: Long Beach, CA
Posts: 94
Re: UK state pension and USA social security
I've been sitting here thinking about this for about 15 minutes. If the UK pension office say they will not deduct tax from either weekly pension or lump sum, then I think it safe to assume they will not do so.
If HM tax man subsequently discovers that you have received over your personal allowance they might write and ask for the unpaid tax. Then you can either dispute you are liable to UK income tax as you live in the US, or pay it and tax a foreign tax deduction on your US tax return.
If HM tax man subsequently discovers that you have received over your personal allowance they might write and ask for the unpaid tax. Then you can either dispute you are liable to UK income tax as you live in the US, or pay it and tax a foreign tax deduction on your US tax return.
In any event, as you say, If HMRC ever questioned it, I shall take the position that I am a US resident and file US taxes.
#763
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Apr 2011
Location: The Shire
Posts: 1,117
Re: UK state pension and USA social security
The DWP does in fact send HMRC the exact amounts paid each year. When completing a self-assessment form, and if you use the actual amount of State Pension received during the year (an error since you're paid 4 weeks in arrears), HMRC will correct the amount to the DWP amount. Tax is calculated, if applicable, using the DWP amount. This can be confirmed in the letter sent you by HMRC showing how they calculated your tax.
The DWP send a letter to you each year, prior to 6 April, stating what your next years State Pension will be, but may not include lump sum distributions for delayed pension entitlement. This is the basis of what you file on the self-assessment form for the following tax year.
Is notification by DWP to HMRC different for those resident abroad?
Last edited by theOAP; Apr 22nd 2015 at 1:19 pm.
#764
Forum Regular
Joined: Jun 2014
Location: Long Beach, CA
Posts: 94
Re: UK state pension and USA social security
The Pension officer at DWP, amongst other things, also said that after they process the claim, they will send me a document/form (I think she said it had a number beginning with something like 1 BR......) that she said I should take it to the SSA office for WEP purposes. She said it was different from the Award letter. I forgot to ask her in what respect it differed from the Award letter because this too, to my knowledge, contained all the pension info. When I mentioned the WEP Form 308 that we are required to file with the SSA here, she didn't seem to know what it was! Did anyone who have lately received the UK state Pension, get any such document/form in addition to the Award letter? Also, those who are going to be receiving state pension ( Lansbury for his wife), please share the information if they do receive any such document. I prefer to keep it simple and file just the form 308.
#765
Re: UK state pension and USA social security
We didn't receive anything from the UK to give to social security. I would not expect most staff a the DWP to know anything about WEP and the forms here. When we did our SS claim the other day we were not asked to submit a form 308. The guy dealing with our claim was happy to accept the information verbally, with just the usual statement by us that the information was true and to give false information was perjury.
The SSA staff member we spoke to didn't know what the UK State pension was and we had to explain that to him. I think he was confused by the use of State in the name, having a different meaning to State in the USA. Having said that we found the whole process of claiming SS very easy and straightforward, and the guy we dealt very professional and helpful.
The SSA staff member we spoke to didn't know what the UK State pension was and we had to explain that to him. I think he was confused by the use of State in the name, having a different meaning to State in the USA. Having said that we found the whole process of claiming SS very easy and straightforward, and the guy we dealt very professional and helpful.