Sectarian songs at the Texas Scottish Festival :-(
Jun 9th 2004, 5:31 pm
#1
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Joined: Jun 2004
Location: Scotland and Texas
Posts: 10
Sectarian songs at the Texas Scottish Festival :-(
Please don't misread this message or take any Sectarian message from it since NONE is intended - quite the opposite actually, which I hope will make sense as you read on. I am only alerting other Scots in the USA to what I experienced at the Scottish Texas Festival at the weekend in Arlington, TX.
As a Scot who lives in Texas I would like to point out that the songs by the groups the 3 Brothers and to some degree the Glengarry Bhoys were a little offensive to the majority of Scots. I do not accept that Sectarian songs from Northern Ireland have any part in a Scottish Festival, or are in the spirit of the event, and back in Scotland at any similar event songs like that would be liable to cause upset and perhaps something much worse. I would like to point that the vast majority of Scots are actually Protestant or some other religion other than Roman Catholic or for that matter Irish and otherwise have no interest in hearing about the troubles.
Before I am accused of being a bigot I would like to point out that I am a Scottish Roman Catholic and was sitting in mixed company with some Scottish Presbyterians and I felt rather disgusted, embarrassed and outraged to hear Republican/Rebel songs and such sentiments being expressed by the man in the black shirt. The group 'The 3 brothers' were the major offenders at the event and I would be happy never to hear of this bunch again. It is annoying to have someone who barely understands the issues of Northern Ireland, or indeed the pain of the troubles of Northern Ireland which exist across the religious divide bringing them into what is a festival about another country altogether (that is Scotland).
The Glengarry 'Bhoys' on the other hand are American and quite laughable since they probably picked their name out of complete stupidity thinking that the word Bhoys was in some way Scottish. Bhoys as you know is a word used withing Scotland almost exclusively by the supporters and team of Glasgow Celtic and by choosing that term excludes the other religious half of Glasgow and most of Scotland. I spoke to some of the other few Scots who came (Protestants and Catholics alike) in the course of the weekend and we seemed to agree on these issues. I really think the organisers have to make a clear division of what is Scottish and what is Irish (the grey area in between being acceptable I'm sure to everyone) but most all to prevent any Sectarian songs from being sung at any future event. On a similar note there was also some sign of Rangers and Celtic tops being worn by this one and that one, which raises the question should football colors be tolerated at this event? I mean you wouldn't normally be allowed to wear them in a Glasgow pub?
I take this matter seriously and I am now considering a letter to the local paper who covered the event. It is disgraceful and very insulting to force ones Sectarian views down other peoples throats. I have already pointed out that I am a Roman Catholic but that I would have been offended at any form of Sectarian song that was sung. In this case it was Irish Republican songs by a man in a black shirt who understands very little of the troubles. He might as well have worn a balaclava and shouted an IRA slogan.
In Scotland there has been much work done in the past few years to stop any form of Sectarianism or the wearing of football colours in places where alcohol is on sale. I should point out to you that Scotland is part of Great Britain and having our noses rubbed in the troubles of Ireland is a complete insult, especially when it's being done by people who seem to know nothing about Scotland or the Scots, or the troubles over the water.
In light of this experience I don't think I'll be going back to that festival next year. Ireland and Scotland are two completely different countries with different cultures. The vast majority of Scottish people do not support the IRA and it is very offensive to sing Irish rebel songs. Pseudo Scottish events like the Texas Scottish Festival - do not attract ex-Pat Scots - rather they insult us and chase us away.
I am interested to hear other Scots views and of any similar experiences. If you feel strongly about this issue then make your complaint to the organisers at that event 'The Scottish Texas Festival' and help stamp out Sectarianism.
Alba gu brath! :-D
As a Scot who lives in Texas I would like to point out that the songs by the groups the 3 Brothers and to some degree the Glengarry Bhoys were a little offensive to the majority of Scots. I do not accept that Sectarian songs from Northern Ireland have any part in a Scottish Festival, or are in the spirit of the event, and back in Scotland at any similar event songs like that would be liable to cause upset and perhaps something much worse. I would like to point that the vast majority of Scots are actually Protestant or some other religion other than Roman Catholic or for that matter Irish and otherwise have no interest in hearing about the troubles.
Before I am accused of being a bigot I would like to point out that I am a Scottish Roman Catholic and was sitting in mixed company with some Scottish Presbyterians and I felt rather disgusted, embarrassed and outraged to hear Republican/Rebel songs and such sentiments being expressed by the man in the black shirt. The group 'The 3 brothers' were the major offenders at the event and I would be happy never to hear of this bunch again. It is annoying to have someone who barely understands the issues of Northern Ireland, or indeed the pain of the troubles of Northern Ireland which exist across the religious divide bringing them into what is a festival about another country altogether (that is Scotland).
The Glengarry 'Bhoys' on the other hand are American and quite laughable since they probably picked their name out of complete stupidity thinking that the word Bhoys was in some way Scottish. Bhoys as you know is a word used withing Scotland almost exclusively by the supporters and team of Glasgow Celtic and by choosing that term excludes the other religious half of Glasgow and most of Scotland. I spoke to some of the other few Scots who came (Protestants and Catholics alike) in the course of the weekend and we seemed to agree on these issues. I really think the organisers have to make a clear division of what is Scottish and what is Irish (the grey area in between being acceptable I'm sure to everyone) but most all to prevent any Sectarian songs from being sung at any future event. On a similar note there was also some sign of Rangers and Celtic tops being worn by this one and that one, which raises the question should football colors be tolerated at this event? I mean you wouldn't normally be allowed to wear them in a Glasgow pub?
I take this matter seriously and I am now considering a letter to the local paper who covered the event. It is disgraceful and very insulting to force ones Sectarian views down other peoples throats. I have already pointed out that I am a Roman Catholic but that I would have been offended at any form of Sectarian song that was sung. In this case it was Irish Republican songs by a man in a black shirt who understands very little of the troubles. He might as well have worn a balaclava and shouted an IRA slogan.
In Scotland there has been much work done in the past few years to stop any form of Sectarianism or the wearing of football colours in places where alcohol is on sale. I should point out to you that Scotland is part of Great Britain and having our noses rubbed in the troubles of Ireland is a complete insult, especially when it's being done by people who seem to know nothing about Scotland or the Scots, or the troubles over the water.
In light of this experience I don't think I'll be going back to that festival next year. Ireland and Scotland are two completely different countries with different cultures. The vast majority of Scottish people do not support the IRA and it is very offensive to sing Irish rebel songs. Pseudo Scottish events like the Texas Scottish Festival - do not attract ex-Pat Scots - rather they insult us and chase us away.
I am interested to hear other Scots views and of any similar experiences. If you feel strongly about this issue then make your complaint to the organisers at that event 'The Scottish Texas Festival' and help stamp out Sectarianism.
Alba gu brath! :-D
Last edited by Laverock; Jun 9th 2004 at 7:33 pm.
Jun 9th 2004, 7:16 pm
#2
BE Enthusiast
Joined: Oct 2003
Location: Arizona
Posts: 961
Re: Sectarian songs at the Texas Scottish Festival :-(
Originally posted by Laverock
Please don't misread this message or take any Sectarian message from it since NONE is intended - quite the opposite actually, which I hope will make sense as you read on. I am only alerting other Scots in the USA to what I experienced at the Scottish Texas Festival at the weekend in Arlington, TX.
As a Scot who lives in Texas I would like to point out that the songs by the groups the 3 Brothers and to some degree the Glengarry Bhoys were a little offensive to the majority of Scots. I do not accept that Sectarian songs from Northern Ireland have any part in a Scottish Festival, or are in the spirit of the event, and back in Scotland at any similar event songs like that would be liable to cause upset and perhaps something much worse. I would like to point that the vast majority of Scots are actually Protestant or some other religion other than Roman Catholic or for that matter Irish and otherwise have no interest in hearing about the troubles.
Before I am accused of being a bigot I would like to point out that I am a Scottish Roman Catholic and was sitting in mixed company with some Scottish Presbyterians and I felt rather disgusted, embarrassed and outraged to hear Republican/Rebel songs and such sentiments being expressed by the man in the black shirt. The group 'The 3 brothers' were the major offenders at the event and I would be happy never to hear of this bunch again. It is annoying to have someone who barely understands the issues of Northern Ireland, or indeed the pain of the troubles of Northern Ireland which exist across the religious divide bringing them into what is a festival about another country altogether (that is Scotland).
The Glengarry 'Bhoys' on the other hand are American and quite laughable since they probably picked their name out of complete stupidity thinking that the word Bhoys was in some way Scottish. Bhoys as you know is a word used withing Scotland almost exclusively by the supporters and team of Glasgow Celtic and by choosing that term excludes the other religious half of Glasgow and most of Scotland. I spoke to some of the other few Scots who came (Protestants and Catholics alike) in the course of the weekend and we seemed to agree on these issues. I really think the organisers have to make a clear division of what is Scottish and what is Irish (the grey area in between being acceptable I'm sure to everyone) but most all to prevent any Sectarian songs from being sung at any future event. On a similar note there was also some sign of Rangers and Celtic tops being worn by this one and that one, which raises the question should football colors be tolerated at this event? I mean you wouldn't normally be allowed to wear them in a Glasgow pub?
I take this matter seriously and I am now considering a letter to the local paper who covered the event. It is disgraceful and very insulting to force ones Sectarian views down other peoples throats. I have already pointed out that I am a Roman Catholic but that I would have been offended at any form of Sectarian song that was sung. In this case it was Irish Republican songs by a man in a black shirt who understands very little of the troubles. He might as well have worn a balaclava and shouted an IRA slogan.
In Scotland there has been much work done in the past few years to stop any form of Sectarianism or the wearing of football colours. I should point out to you that Scotland is part of Great Britain and having our noses rubbed in the troubles of Ireland is a complete insult, especially when it's being done by people who seem to know nothing about Scotland or the Scots, or the troubles over the water.
In light of this experience I don't think I'll be going back to that festival next year. Ireland and Scotland are two completely different countries with different cultures. The vast majority of Scottish people do not support the IRA and it is very offensive to sing Irish rebel songs. Pseudo Scottish events like the Texas Scottish Festival - do not attract ex-Pat Scots - rather they insult us and chase us away.
I am interested to hear other Scots views and of any similar experiences. If you feel strongly about this issue then make your complaint to the organisers at that event 'The Sottish Texas Festival' and help stamp out Sectarianism.
Alba gu brath! :-D
Please don't misread this message or take any Sectarian message from it since NONE is intended - quite the opposite actually, which I hope will make sense as you read on. I am only alerting other Scots in the USA to what I experienced at the Scottish Texas Festival at the weekend in Arlington, TX.
As a Scot who lives in Texas I would like to point out that the songs by the groups the 3 Brothers and to some degree the Glengarry Bhoys were a little offensive to the majority of Scots. I do not accept that Sectarian songs from Northern Ireland have any part in a Scottish Festival, or are in the spirit of the event, and back in Scotland at any similar event songs like that would be liable to cause upset and perhaps something much worse. I would like to point that the vast majority of Scots are actually Protestant or some other religion other than Roman Catholic or for that matter Irish and otherwise have no interest in hearing about the troubles.
Before I am accused of being a bigot I would like to point out that I am a Scottish Roman Catholic and was sitting in mixed company with some Scottish Presbyterians and I felt rather disgusted, embarrassed and outraged to hear Republican/Rebel songs and such sentiments being expressed by the man in the black shirt. The group 'The 3 brothers' were the major offenders at the event and I would be happy never to hear of this bunch again. It is annoying to have someone who barely understands the issues of Northern Ireland, or indeed the pain of the troubles of Northern Ireland which exist across the religious divide bringing them into what is a festival about another country altogether (that is Scotland).
The Glengarry 'Bhoys' on the other hand are American and quite laughable since they probably picked their name out of complete stupidity thinking that the word Bhoys was in some way Scottish. Bhoys as you know is a word used withing Scotland almost exclusively by the supporters and team of Glasgow Celtic and by choosing that term excludes the other religious half of Glasgow and most of Scotland. I spoke to some of the other few Scots who came (Protestants and Catholics alike) in the course of the weekend and we seemed to agree on these issues. I really think the organisers have to make a clear division of what is Scottish and what is Irish (the grey area in between being acceptable I'm sure to everyone) but most all to prevent any Sectarian songs from being sung at any future event. On a similar note there was also some sign of Rangers and Celtic tops being worn by this one and that one, which raises the question should football colors be tolerated at this event? I mean you wouldn't normally be allowed to wear them in a Glasgow pub?
I take this matter seriously and I am now considering a letter to the local paper who covered the event. It is disgraceful and very insulting to force ones Sectarian views down other peoples throats. I have already pointed out that I am a Roman Catholic but that I would have been offended at any form of Sectarian song that was sung. In this case it was Irish Republican songs by a man in a black shirt who understands very little of the troubles. He might as well have worn a balaclava and shouted an IRA slogan.
In Scotland there has been much work done in the past few years to stop any form of Sectarianism or the wearing of football colours. I should point out to you that Scotland is part of Great Britain and having our noses rubbed in the troubles of Ireland is a complete insult, especially when it's being done by people who seem to know nothing about Scotland or the Scots, or the troubles over the water.
In light of this experience I don't think I'll be going back to that festival next year. Ireland and Scotland are two completely different countries with different cultures. The vast majority of Scottish people do not support the IRA and it is very offensive to sing Irish rebel songs. Pseudo Scottish events like the Texas Scottish Festival - do not attract ex-Pat Scots - rather they insult us and chase us away.
I am interested to hear other Scots views and of any similar experiences. If you feel strongly about this issue then make your complaint to the organisers at that event 'The Sottish Texas Festival' and help stamp out Sectarianism.
Alba gu brath! :-D
A similar thing happened in Philly a few years ago. Every New Year they have a parade thru the city called the Mummers Parade. All very innocent mostly for the kids, and the people who make the floats vie for prizes etc. One year they had an Irish float and atop it were guys wearing balaclavas and carrying sub machine guns. Most of the people in the crowd had no idea what was going on, but for us Brits we knew exactly what it represented. Needless to say there was an outcry and the people who owned the float were taken to task about it. Apologies were printed in the papers and it will never be allowed to happen again.
Jun 9th 2004, 7:42 pm
#3
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Joined: Jun 2004
Location: Scotland and Texas
Posts: 10
Re: Sectarian songs at the Texas Scottish Festival :-(
My Effi that is an extreme and scarey thing to have seen and I'm sure it would likewise have horrified a great many Irish people who have first-hand experience of the troubles, to see such a thing enacted. Although my experience was not as blatant as that, I'm sure you can see why I was very annoyed at how these songs were included at a Scottish festival celebrating Scottish culture. For me it marred the whole event. I put part of it down to an almost complete ignorance of my nation and it's culture, by some of the performers and the organisers of that event.
Jun 9th 2004, 11:41 pm
#4
100% Pure
Joined: Dec 2002
Location: Fort Worth, TX.
Posts: 1,185
Re: Sectarian songs at the Texas Scottish Festival :-(
I was there on the Sunday and it was bloody hot in my kilt! I only saw one chap wearing a Old Firm top (a few seasons old mind you) so I muttered some insults in his general direction.
Seriously, I didn't hear any of the performers you mention. There were a few other undesirables there though. My wife was offended by the confederate/white supremacist/anti UN merchandise on offer.
Seriously, I didn't hear any of the performers you mention. There were a few other undesirables there though. My wife was offended by the confederate/white supremacist/anti UN merchandise on offer.
Jun 10th 2004, 1:55 am
#5
"Where are the shovels?"
Joined: Mar 2004
Location: Oregon
Posts: 568
Sounds like an absolute blast. I can only echo what has already been said. Your average yank thinks Scotland lies on the same Island as Ireland and that the UK is...well another word for the island of England. It could probably be safely assumed that they think Scotland and Ireland hate the English equally and share some kind of brotherly bond because of past invasions. There's not much can be done about it really because the country is so big and most people don't really care about facts. I'm going to watch Celtic play Chelsea up in Seattle this July and I have to worry if I can take a St Andrews flag with me (I support Hearts and despise sectarianism) to show support for the Scottish team.
I'm sure I will hear lots of "Irish Americans" singing ant-british and IRA songs...will be intresting how I take to this since i'm going to the boozer beforehand
I'm sure I will hear lots of "Irish Americans" singing ant-british and IRA songs...will be intresting how I take to this since i'm going to the boozer beforehand
