mattbutt

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/3681462.stm

Just read this article on raising the legal age to buy alcohol in the UK.

I like the fact that here you can go into a bar and not be confronted by some 16/17 yr old for 'staring at his bird'. I think the general bar scene is a lot nicer in the US (round here anyway) though I havent been exposed to many 18 yr olds. One thing I do notice is that even for 21+ the binge drinking culture is as much in existence here as it is in the UK. I get the impression that the older you are the less likely you are to go out and cause trouble after an evening in a bar.

Manc

The licensing laws in the UK need to be strengthened in a lot of areas and relaxed in many others.

Pubs need to be open as long as they want.
This would stagger the closings of pubs and one would not have an 11pm influx of drunken brawlers onto the streets all at once.

This would allow people to take time whilst having a pint, rather than gulping down 4 pints and 2 whiskey chasers at 10:40pm.

Instead of going to the boozer straight from work, people could go home have something to eat and therefore less likely to drink on an empty stomach.

Up the age limit for all I care, I'm older than 21 so it doesn't affect me, but I fail to comprehend the logic that 11pm closing is better than here where people have the time to do things at ones own pace rather than drinking like a speed train to get as much in before 11pm

mattbutt

Changing the closing time does need to be done I agree, however I still notice that at 2am, 4am or whatever time the area closes you still get drunken hoards spilling out on the streets. I dont think that changing the times bars can stay open till will change that problem.

There are a number or places now that are given late licenses in city centres and the problem still exists all be it at a different time of the night.

I dont know the stats of trouble caused by people drinking but im guessing its males between the ages of 16/18 and 24. Raising the age would narrow that demographic down but im sure it would just move the trouble elsewhere.

jjmb

Rising the legal drinking age will not solve the problem. My daughter is 19 and I know that although she does not go to bars, she is drinking whilst she parties at college. We have warned her of the consequents and she does on the whole, drink responsibly but she is an adult now,so its her choice. She can vote, drive, die for her country and in this country, own a gun from the age of 15, so why shouldn't she be able to chose whether she wants to drink.

Only this week, another student in Colorado died of alcohol poisoning, the 2nd in the past month.Teaching kids from an early age that alcohol is dangerous if consumed in too large amount is one way that might help. Enforcing the laws about underage drinking will also help.

When we lived in Scotland, one store in particular was guilty for knowingly supplying alcohol to underage drinkers. Often the kids would be just hanging around, asking older customers to buy the cans for them. The staff knew that was happening but nothing was ever done about it. If stores persist in selling alcohol to underage drinkers or to customers who they know are buying it for underage drinkers, then the store should be closed down for 'X' number of days. Likewise with bars that don't check for ID. A few days of lost business would soon stop the selling of alcohol to underage drinkers.

Manc

we're not argueing about whether or not kids can drink, we're more argueing the point that you're more likely to get filled in by some young fueled up chav while trying to have a quiet pint.

I have no problems with college kids having parties, it's happened for years.

jjmb

Sorry thought this about the pro and cons of raising the age limit. If what you are arguing about is the attitude of young drinkers in the UK, then why is that drinking in Europe from a young age doesn't get the same reaction. Because Kids learn from example. They learn from their loutish parents that to drink yourself to oblivion is the norm, shouting at the top of your voice is the norm and generally being a pain in the arse is the norm. In Europe, its social occaisson to enjoy with your friends and family. Here, you learn to drink at home and in secret, unless its a bbq, then you can be drunk, loud and burn yourself.

sibsie

I don't know if it's the same in other states, but here in MA parents can be arrested for allowing their kids to drink. There was one case where the parents knew their son would be drinking at his graduation party, so they wanted him to do it supervised and at home when he wouldn't be driving. I think he was 18, he had a few friends over and they had a 6 pack. Dad ended up being arrested and doing time! Outrageous.

Big news here in Rockport is that they've finally lifted the dry town rule. It only extends to restaurants but finally we'll be able to have a drink with a meal.

mattbutt

Well its kind of both, but the point is would moving the age make any difference.

- the publicans would have to enforce it for a start? less money as well. I went to plenty of pubs where the owner knew full well we were under age, we did go to those pubs becasue they were great places to be, we went cos we could get pissed.

- whats different in the mentality of young people in the uk that they feel a need to go out, get wasted have fight, throw up, smash up something? I dont think i can answer that.

The country has a history of drinking and a drinking culture, you would think that by now people could do it responsibly?

NC Penguin

jjmb beat me to it. This thread just reminded me of the recent story about that female student in Colorado who consumed 40 drinks in an 11 hr period.

Though the American legal drinking age is 21, once these young people get to university, beyond the watchful? eyes of parents, they drink really hard, especially as part of the fraternity and sorority scenes.

That's probably another reason why motor insurance for the under 21s is so ridiculously high in NC (and probably most other states) 'cos the underage drinkers are over the limit and at the wheel of a vehicle driving their friends.

Also, there's a lot of peer pressure at that age so I'm not sure that free will is in effect when under 21s drink. Ostracization and discrimination can really dent an individual's ego and could lead to drink in itself. A no-win situation if you ask me.

Bob

Funny, started the same thread in take it out side...can't be bothered to merge it though, so Manc, if ya bothered

Bob

That's pretty true, and then have more problems of a lack of transport...not that I don't mind staggering closing times, it's a good idea, but closing a bar at 6am in Austria, was a bit of a joke, didn't do my brother any favours thats for sure

Lothianlad

Scottish licensing hours are longer than they are in England.....open until 01:00 and sometimes later.....more civilised...and a lot less bingeing crap and trouble for the cops...but again, we are more civilised....even in Glasgow and that's saying something.

Cheers

Friday tomorow..time for a few s

Bob

Still deep fat fry anything under the sun though

mattbutt

Thats a sweeping statement,

Ive seen trainspotting and that didnt look very civilised!

Besides the cops are to busy catching drug dealers and car theives to worry about drinking.

NJ_Dave

You mean trying to catch speeding motorists, and carrying out stop-searches on people who have not done anything wrong?