Racism gone mad..
Oct 4th 2007, 7:06 pm
#91
WTF?
Joined: Aug 2003
Location: Homeostasis
Posts: 79,384
Re: Racism gone mad..
Actually I would prefer it if kids were taught the true origins and history of words like this, not some "whitewashed" (excuse the pun) version which sets them all as slurs.
Maybe if kids better understood the history behind them they would be less inclined to use them. Of course, maybe simply telling kids that something is bad and not to do it is the way to go...
Maybe if kids better understood the history behind them they would be less inclined to use them. Of course, maybe simply telling kids that something is bad and not to do it is the way to go...
Oct 4th 2007, 7:06 pm
#92
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 14,577
Re: Racism gone mad..
You seem to have a fundamental misunderstanding of labeling.
Labeling usually begins with the majority, who label anything outside of their own group as being different. The labels begin as pejorative, a way to demean and segregate the minority.
Fortunately, American culture provides a tool to undermine this. Thanks to hyphenation, the Irish (who was originally considered to be part of an underclass when emigrating here in the 19th century) became Irish-Americans; the similarly demeaned Italians became Italian-American, and so on. Hyphenation remains a tool of empowerment to provide an identity that can both embrace American culture while providing heritage and roots beyond it. Had they just remained Irish or Italian, they may well would have remained ghettoized and subjugated.
The term African American is recent, but it was invented by black activists who tired of being identified strictly by their melanin content instead of by the heritage that every other American has had for a long time. I initially chaffed against this one myself, but looking at it in the context of American society, I see now how it makes.
Labeling usually begins with the majority, who label anything outside of their own group as being different. The labels begin as pejorative, a way to demean and segregate the minority.
Fortunately, American culture provides a tool to undermine this. Thanks to hyphenation, the Irish (who was originally considered to be part of an underclass when emigrating here in the 19th century) became Irish-Americans; the similarly demeaned Italians became Italian-American, and so on. Hyphenation remains a tool of empowerment to provide an identity that can both embrace American culture while providing heritage and roots beyond it. Had they just remained Irish or Italian, they may well would have remained ghettoized and subjugated.
The term African American is recent, but it was invented by black activists who tired of being identified strictly by their melanin content instead of by the heritage that every other American has had for a long time. I initially chaffed against this one myself, but looking at it in the context of American society, I see now how it makes.
Oct 4th 2007, 7:45 pm
#93
Thinking about it
Joined: Oct 2005
Location: Mid-West
Posts: 9,435
Re: Racism gone mad..
The race of the teacher won't change any of these facts.
I totally agree with limey's observation earlier - apparently using colour as an identifier is bad, but using hyphenated descriptions is ok - both seem to basically be the same thing to me.
Oct 4th 2007, 11:05 pm
#94
And YOU'RE paying for it!
Joined: May 2007
Location: kipper tie?
Posts: 2,328
Oct 4th 2007, 11:26 pm
#95
Account Closed
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 15,455
Re: Racism gone mad..
Whow, that turned into a different thread than expected.
I am SORRY but using ANY word for education sake is EDUCATION. Trying to constantly be politically correct gets my bacon. The "N" word is in many RAP songs kids listen to doday as is the "B", the "F" word and the "S" word!!. WHy do you think the dictionary contains most swear words - to EDUCATE or at least give understanding.
The point was, AT LEAST, even if incorrectly done (because the teacher was perhaps a little lazy) does not mean it should be taken out of f//king context.
Lest we be so politically correct in our schools we learn too little.
My 2 cents anway. Glas we are free to all have a different oppinion.
TTFN.
I am SORRY but using ANY word for education sake is EDUCATION. Trying to constantly be politically correct gets my bacon. The "N" word is in many RAP songs kids listen to doday as is the "B", the "F" word and the "S" word!!. WHy do you think the dictionary contains most swear words - to EDUCATE or at least give understanding.
The point was, AT LEAST, even if incorrectly done (because the teacher was perhaps a little lazy) does not mean it should be taken out of f//king context.
Lest we be so politically correct in our schools we learn too little.
My 2 cents anway. Glas we are free to all have a different oppinion.
TTFN.
Oct 4th 2007, 11:29 pm
#96
Account Closed
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 15,455
Re: Racism gone mad..
Well, after reading this:
"A parent, Clifford Branan, said his son's teacher assigned the homework Friday, as a supplement to "Sounder," a book his class is reading. The book is commonly used in classrooms nationwide to illustrate racial bigotry and sharecropping hardships through the eyes of a young black boy."
I believe that most Tennessee fifth-graders know the meaning of the "n" word.... but possibly not all of them. My eldest probably wouldn't have known it back then, though she certainly does now, four years later. If there was reason to believe that some of the children wouldn't know the word, would it be acceptable to explain? (eg there are kids from India who've just arrived in the US and I have no idea if they'd know the word)
I'm also appalled that *fifth*-graders are doing crosswords with words they should already know.
Where are the essays?
"A parent, Clifford Branan, said his son's teacher assigned the homework Friday, as a supplement to "Sounder," a book his class is reading. The book is commonly used in classrooms nationwide to illustrate racial bigotry and sharecropping hardships through the eyes of a young black boy."
I believe that most Tennessee fifth-graders know the meaning of the "n" word.... but possibly not all of them. My eldest probably wouldn't have known it back then, though she certainly does now, four years later. If there was reason to believe that some of the children wouldn't know the word, would it be acceptable to explain? (eg there are kids from India who've just arrived in the US and I have no idea if they'd know the word)
I'm also appalled that *fifth*-graders are doing crosswords with words they should already know.
Where are the essays?Sounds like a lazy piece of homework-setting.
Last edited by Sally; Oct 4th 2007 at 11:33 pm.
Oct 5th 2007, 5:38 am
#97
Lapine Member
Joined: Nov 2004
Location: Austin, Texas in my own little world
Posts: 21,691
Re: Racism gone mad..
I do see your point Leslie, about you wanting to teach the use of such a word yourself, rather than in a class. I do too, and that's why I try to "beat" the school to teaching issues.
OTOH, teaching evolution or contraception in public schools has also been challenged by some groups. IMHO, if one wants to be certain to be the teacher and the only teacher, then one must homeschool. As a parent I have the right to opt both my children out of education regarding sex, sexually transmitted disease, etc, and even dissection. So some days I wonder -- are we going to get down to teaching only well proven facts (eg 1 + 1 = 2) and even then someone's going to argue!
I think putting it in a crossword overemphasized it. If I were to try to explain it to a child who did not know the word, I would explain that when slavery existed, it was sadly normal to deny slaves every human right; and even freed slaves were often mistreated, as were Native Americans. Using derogatory racist remarks went along with that, and I would say that some people who have no decency still use the old words as a way to spread hate.
Anyway -- I explain things to my kids like this, but I don't know if a classroom teacher could, or if s/he would just have to ignore the fact that the word is in the book. I also am reluctant to rewrite the book to omit the word.
I hope there will be a day when kids don't know the word because it's fallen out of use, but I don't know if that will happen.
Oct 5th 2007, 5:53 am
#98
Account Closed
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 15,455
Re: Racism gone mad..
Yes, the book does contain the n-word, as does Twain's _Huckleberry Finn_ (not sure about Sawyer).
I do see your point Leslie, about you wanting to teach the use of such a word yourself, rather than in a class. I do too, and that's why I try to "beat" the school to teaching issues.
OTOH, teaching evolution or contraception in public schools has also been challenged by some groups. IMHO, if one wants to be certain to be the teacher and the only teacher, then one must homeschool. As a parent I have the right to opt both my children out of education regarding sex, sexually transmitted disease, etc, and even dissection. So some days I wonder -- are we going to get down to teaching only well proven facts (eg 1 + 1 = 2) and even then someone's going to argue!
I think putting it in a crossword overemphasized it. If I were to try to explain it to a child who did not know the word, I would explain that when slavery existed, it was sadly normal to deny slaves every human right; and even freed slaves were often mistreated, as were Native Americans. Using derogatory racist remarks went along with that, and I would say that some people who have no decency still use the old words as a way to spread hate.
Anyway -- I explain things to my kids like this, but I don't know if a classroom teacher could, or if s/he would just have to ignore the fact that the word is in the book. I also am reluctant to rewrite the book to omit the word.
I hope there will be a day when kids don't know the word because it's fallen out of use, but I don't know if that will happen.
I do see your point Leslie, about you wanting to teach the use of such a word yourself, rather than in a class. I do too, and that's why I try to "beat" the school to teaching issues.
OTOH, teaching evolution or contraception in public schools has also been challenged by some groups. IMHO, if one wants to be certain to be the teacher and the only teacher, then one must homeschool. As a parent I have the right to opt both my children out of education regarding sex, sexually transmitted disease, etc, and even dissection. So some days I wonder -- are we going to get down to teaching only well proven facts (eg 1 + 1 = 2) and even then someone's going to argue!
I think putting it in a crossword overemphasized it. If I were to try to explain it to a child who did not know the word, I would explain that when slavery existed, it was sadly normal to deny slaves every human right; and even freed slaves were often mistreated, as were Native Americans. Using derogatory racist remarks went along with that, and I would say that some people who have no decency still use the old words as a way to spread hate.
Anyway -- I explain things to my kids like this, but I don't know if a classroom teacher could, or if s/he would just have to ignore the fact that the word is in the book. I also am reluctant to rewrite the book to omit the word.
I hope there will be a day when kids don't know the word because it's fallen out of use, but I don't know if that will happen.
