Race issues

Old Jan 2nd 2006, 1:37 pm
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Default Race issues

I was just reading this cheery new year story:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/worldlates...515353,00.html

Interesting stuff. Now, not being a minority I can't really say, but is there a big difference between the US and UK on race still? I think there is a perception that it is a bigger problem here, but is it true?
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Old Jan 2nd 2006, 2:34 pm
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Default Re: Race issues

Originally Posted by Chorlton
I was just reading this cheery new year story:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/worldlates...515353,00.html

Interesting stuff. Now, not being a minority I can't really say, but is there a big difference between the US and UK on race still? I think there is a perception that it is a bigger problem here, but is it true?
My personal observation is that race is a much bigger, and more overt (in the media) issue in the US. In fact, as one civil rights speaker once said (if I remember exactly who, I'll post it), "Everything is about race".

My experience living in the Southeast US is that black citizens in the US are more likely to be living in lower-SES areas than white citizens.
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Old Jan 2nd 2006, 2:44 pm
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Default Re: Race issues

Originally Posted by Chorlton
I was just reading this cheery new year story:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/worldlates...515353,00.html

Interesting stuff. Now, not being a minority I can't really say, but is there a big difference between the US and UK on race still? I think there is a perception that it is a bigger problem here, but is it true?
My wife (who is black) seems to think so. It is more underhanded here, and I think racists in the UK make it more obvious that they're racist. You will often see here that most companies have only one black person high up in the company; in her company my wife has noticed a lot of racism in terms of the way staff are treated and progress through the company (although there is also a lot of sexism in her company so she gets the double barrel on that one).; pay is certainly not as good for women in her company and from what I have heard it seems to be the same almost everywhere.

I think in the UK people who are racist are more openly so; everyone else is a bit more tolerant. I think you also see a few more minorities in higher positions in companies - it seems to be easier in the UK to make it on your own merits rather than having to go above and beyond to prove that you are worthy if you are a minority.

My wife and I get plenty of "looks" here being a mixed race couple (not just from white people), but when we're in the UK together it hardly ever seems to happen; it seems we might be more accepted there.

Just my thoughts - the racism is there in the US but now it seems to only impact us in relatively minor ways; it impacts her more in her job than I can imagine (she has to work hard to keep her job; plenty of her friends in the same position haven't lasted long because they are unable to keep up with the considerable amount of pressure that is put on them)
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Old Jan 2nd 2006, 3:06 pm
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Default Re: Race issues

We have been fostering two black children over the holidays, they where 3 and 4. It promted a discussion between my wife and I about how we would handle getting a black baby. Would we bring it up as we are, or should we bring the child up to be "ethnic" to make him/her more socially acceptable when he/she grows up, otherwise s/he would just be a white person in black skin.

I said to Ellen, "do you know the worst part of this conversation?" and she said " that we actually have to have it!, welcome to America!"

Its sad but true, if we where fostering and adopting in the UK we would have to even consider race, I wish it where the same here, but if we brought up an african american child in NC without a blaccent they would suffer in the long run.
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Old Jan 2nd 2006, 3:27 pm
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Default Re: Race issues

[QUOTE=Patrick]We have been fostering two black children over the holidays, they where 3 and 4. It promted a discussion between my wife and I about how we would handle getting a black baby.

My post is slightly off track here and apologise but I think that's so neat of you to foster esp a different race but then race is not an issue with me, never has been..hope the little children are OK now. I'd be so worried and keep checking up on them if I'd fostered any...I'd find it sooo very hard to give them back or send them off wherever....good for you...you and yours deserve a huge pat on the back....maybe a slap being the sex god you claim to be
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Old Jan 2nd 2006, 3:28 pm
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Default Re: Race issues

Originally Posted by Chorlton
I was just reading this cheery new year story:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/worldlates...515353,00.html

Interesting stuff. Now, not being a minority I can't really say, but is there a big difference between the US and UK on race still? I think there is a perception that it is a bigger problem here, but is it true?

I don't think it's posible to compare the US and UK on this topic, and come up with any meaningful answer.

The comparative sizes of the 2 nations are so different. You might compare the UK with a particular US state, perhaps, or an area of the USA. From what I've gathered so far, states vary greatly in attitude, so to bundle them all together and compare them with the UK, which, in size and communal feelings is comparable to only one large state, isn't really fair.

I'd guess that some of the southern states are way behind the UK, whereas in New York, California, and many of the "blue" states we'd find attitudes to race comparable to those in the UK.
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Old Jan 2nd 2006, 3:30 pm
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Default Re: Race issues

Originally Posted by Dimsie
I don't think it's posible to compare the US and UK on this topic, and come up with any meaningful answer.

The comparative sizes of the 2 nations are so different. You might compare the UK with a particular US state, perhaps, or an area of the USA. From what I've gathered so far, states vary greatly in attitude, so to bundle them all together and compare them with the UK, which, in size and communal feelings is comparable to only one large state, isn't really fair.

I'd guess that some of the southern states are way behind the UK, whereas in New York, California, and many of the "blue" states we'd find attitudes to race comparable to those in the UK.

Hi and yes I totally agree with you, size certainly has a lot to do with it... if you know waht I mean
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Old Jan 2nd 2006, 3:31 pm
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Default Re: Race issues

Originally Posted by dunroving
My personal observation is that race is a much bigger, and more overt (in the media) issue in the US. In fact, as one civil rights speaker once said (if I remember exactly who, I'll post it), "Everything is about race".

My experience living in the Southeast US is that black citizens in the US are more likely to be living in lower-SES areas than white citizens.
I think Dunroving made a good point. Race issues are made a bigger issue, particularly by the media, in the US.

Also, living in the SE USA, I find that the even the poorer areas are (self) segregated. i.e. the poor Black Americans live in one part of town, the Whites in another and the Latinos in a third area. However, there are places where the Black Americans and Latinos live side by side and this is where I'll hear and read about racial gang alteractions.

The City of Durham is addressing the racial tension between young adults/teenagers in their Boys and Girls clubs, encouraging at least Black Americans and Latinos to mix in a neutral, social setting.


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Old Jan 2nd 2006, 3:35 pm
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Default Re: Race issues

Originally Posted by Dimsie
I don't think it's posible to compare the US and UK on this topic, and come up with any meaningful answer.

The comparative sizes of the 2 nations are so different. You might compare the UK with a particular US state, perhaps, or an area of the USA. From what I've gathered so far, states vary greatly in attitude, so to bundle them all together and compare them with the UK, which, in size and communal feelings is comparable to only one large state, isn't really fair.

I'd guess that some of the southern states are way behind the UK, whereas in New York, California, and many of the "blue" states we'd find attitudes to race comparable to those in the UK.

I don't know - states are just like big counties in a lot of ways. Britain has its bad areas just the same as the US, like the areas where the BNP have seats.
I would be interested to see if we can get input on different states, though, and see if the stereotypes are still true. One of my hispanic colleagues told me about this place in my state:
http://www.rtis.com/reg/bcs/pol/touc...l99/vidor.html
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Old Jan 2nd 2006, 3:46 pm
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Default Re: Race issues

It seems to me most races are happy to separate themselves from other races, and emphasise the differences between cultures.

This can only be a bad thing.

Only in the US have I seen 'Black Entertainment Television' and heard people referring to 'Black' films.

Can people just not live with a single common culture? It would be difficult with all this immigration, but surely in the long run its better.

Someone actually sniggered at me once when I said I liked Popeye's fried chicken -apparently that's only a 'Black' fast food chain
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Old Jan 2nd 2006, 3:50 pm
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Default Re: Race issues

Originally Posted by anotherlimey
It seems to me most races are happy to separate themselves from other races, and emphasise the differences between cultures.

This can only be a bad thing.

Only in the US have I seen 'Black Entertainment Television' and heard people referring to 'Black' films.

Can people just not live with a single common culture? It would be difficult with all this immigration, but surely in the long run its better.

I totally agree. Even in the UK, we had the MOBO awards. I dont think that they help matters much.
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Old Jan 2nd 2006, 4:10 pm
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Default Re: Race issues

Originally Posted by anotherlimey
It seems to me most races are happy to separate themselves from other races, and emphasise the differences between cultures.

This can only be a bad thing.

Only in the US have I seen 'Black Entertainment Television' and heard people referring to 'Black' films.

Can people just not live with a single common culture? It would be difficult with all this immigration, but surely in the long run its better.

Someone actually sniggered at me once when I said I liked Popeye's fried chicken -apparently that's only a 'Black' fast food chain
The examples you've given have arisen because entertainment is run by and catered for the white American. Therefore, BET fills a void that has been neglected by the mainstream whiterun media giants. The same is true for "Black" films that have a mostly Black American cast and a storyline that would appeal more to Blacks.

In some ways it's unfortunate that ethnocentric entertainment exists but the examples given are both targeting a segment of the population that has historically been marginalized in entertainment (think of the roles since Hollywood's existence that Blacks have acted in) and also brings to mainstream America the existance of "racism" in the media.

The Jeffersons and Good Times (70s?) broke into the American family's TV "world" by presenting Black Americans as regular people instead of relagating Black characters to stereotypical roles as felons, troublemakers or janitors and the like...


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Old Jan 2nd 2006, 4:18 pm
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Default Re: Race issues

Originally Posted by NC Penguin
The examples you've given have arisen because entertainment is run by and catered for the white American. Therefore, BET fills a void that has been neglected by the mainstream whiterun media giants. The same is true for "Black" films that have a mostly Black American cast and a storyline that would appeal more to Blacks.

In some ways it's unfortunate that ethnocentric entertainment exists but the examples given are both targeting a segment of the population that has historically been marginalized in entertainment (think of the roles since Hollywood's existence that Blacks have acted in) and also brings to mainstream America the existance of "racism" in the media.

The Jeffersons and Good Times (70s?) broke into the American family's TV "world" by presenting Black Americans as regular people instead of relagating Black characters to stereotypical roles as felons, troublemakers or janitors and the like...


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Is it impossible to combine entertainment targeted at African-Americans and entertainment targeted at "White" Americans?

Surely that's better in the long run?

Or is that an idealist utopia?
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Old Jan 2nd 2006, 4:20 pm
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Default Re: Race issues

Originally Posted by Chorlton
I don't know - states are just like big counties in a lot of ways. Britain has its bad areas just the same as the US, like the areas where the BNP have seats.
I would be interested to see if we can get input on different states, though, and see if the stereotypes are still true. One of my hispanic colleagues told me about this place in my state:
http://www.rtis.com/reg/bcs/pol/touc...l99/vidor.html

In most parts of Oklahoma it's similar to how NC Penguin describes
the situation in the SE. The back community tend to live in a particular area of town - often a fairly poor and run-down area. There's one small town (we'd call it a village) where almost the whole population is black (Tatums, OK)

In the town where I live (pop. around 22,000) they hold a number of all-black events e.g. a Black beauty pageant, and the schools vote for a separate Black Homecoming Queen. I'd consider this a bit backward, but they seem to think it's a good thing!

I haven't seen or heard of any racial disturbances here. There's a Native American population too, and they appear to have blended in very well. Considering that they WERE here first, they've had a rough deal and have had to fight hard for the reparations they've achieved. I understand that there are government schemes to assist them financially in various ways.
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Old Jan 2nd 2006, 5:28 pm
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Default Re: Race issues

Originally Posted by Dimsie
In most parts of Oklahoma it's similar to how NC Penguin describes
the situation in the SE. The back community tend to live in a particular area of town - often a fairly poor and run-down area. There's one small town (we'd call it a village) where almost the whole population is black (Tatums, OK)

In the town where I live (pop. around 22,000) they hold a number of all-black events e.g. a Black beauty pageant, and the schools vote for a separate Black Homecoming Queen. I'd consider this a bit backward, but they seem to think it's a good thing!

I haven't seen or heard of any racial disturbances here. There's a Native American population too, and they appear to have blended in very well. Considering that they WERE here first, they've had a rough deal and have had to fight hard for the reparations they've achieved. I understand that there are government schemes to assist them financially in various ways.
Dimsie's reminded me of something I discovered in 2003. White NC has a history of debutante balls which, historically have been white only. Therefore, I discovered that Black Americans have their own version of debutante balls, which they call cotillions (sp?).

Since the white debutante didn't allow Black Americans to partricipate, I'm not surprised that Black Americans formed their own debutante groups.


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