View Poll Results: Public or Private
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Public or Private Health Care?
Jul 22nd 2006, 7:28 pm
#76
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Re: Public or Private Health Care?
Originally Posted by Rompers
You're right. My point is that a nation that spends 250% more per head should expect to be much better, not slightly worse.
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Jul 22nd 2006, 7:30 pm
#77
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Re: Public or Private Health Care?
Jul 22nd 2006, 7:39 pm
#78
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Re: Public or Private Health Care?
Agree completely that the US overspends...yet it's up for each person to determine whether the care is better or not (given all the examples here this could be argued forever), or more importantly if it meets her needs or not.
To overhaul the entire system would take a miracle, yet as I posted it's something I follow quite closely by actively studying all of the proposed univeral plans. I campaigned for uni care once and will keep on trying.
Assume the rest of you will do the same? Looking at the per cap figs I want to read up on some of those countries. I've always heard the French care is fab, and now I see the spending is, too. Initially I thought one reason was their tough stance on health-tourists, illegals, other EU nationals as it's very difficult for them to get care...and the UK system seems challenged due to the sheer number of residents/visitors it must support.
Interesting topic, to say the least.
To overhaul the entire system would take a miracle, yet as I posted it's something I follow quite closely by actively studying all of the proposed univeral plans. I campaigned for uni care once and will keep on trying.
Assume the rest of you will do the same? Looking at the per cap figs I want to read up on some of those countries. I've always heard the French care is fab, and now I see the spending is, too. Initially I thought one reason was their tough stance on health-tourists, illegals, other EU nationals as it's very difficult for them to get care...and the UK system seems challenged due to the sheer number of residents/visitors it must support.
Interesting topic, to say the least.
Jul 22nd 2006, 7:57 pm
#79
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Re: Public or Private Health Care?
Immigrants and health tourists sells newspapers because it appeals to a certain sort of mentality. In reality, the biggest drains on the US health system are:
1. Administrators - because health insurance is so complicated it requires costly administration.
2. Lawyers - hospitals have to pay huge malpractice insurance premiums.
3. Lawyers (again) - Doctors have to pay huge malpractice premiums which drives up doctor's salaries.
4. Drug Companies - The myriad of insurance companies and hospitals lack the buying power of the NHS. Consequently Americans pay a lot more for drugs than most other countries.
5. Mis-allocation of resources - money is not allocated where it can do the most good. Cosmetic surgery for the rich is better funded than ante-natal care for the poor.
Its not a question of spending more on health - the US already spends more than any other country in the world - its a question of spending more efficiently.
1. Administrators - because health insurance is so complicated it requires costly administration.
2. Lawyers - hospitals have to pay huge malpractice insurance premiums.
3. Lawyers (again) - Doctors have to pay huge malpractice premiums which drives up doctor's salaries.
4. Drug Companies - The myriad of insurance companies and hospitals lack the buying power of the NHS. Consequently Americans pay a lot more for drugs than most other countries.
5. Mis-allocation of resources - money is not allocated where it can do the most good. Cosmetic surgery for the rich is better funded than ante-natal care for the poor.
Its not a question of spending more on health - the US already spends more than any other country in the world - its a question of spending more efficiently.
Jul 22nd 2006, 8:14 pm
#80
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Re: Public or Private Health Care?
Originally Posted by Rompers
Immigrants and health tourists sells newspapers because it appeals to a certain sort of mentality. In reality, the biggest drains on the US health system are:
1. Administrators - because health insurance is so complicated it requires costly administration.
2. Lawyers - hospitals have to pay huge malpractice insurance premiums.
3. Lawyers (again) - Doctors have to pay huge malpractice premiums which drives up doctor's salaries.
4. Drug Companies - The myriad of insurance companies and hospitals lack the buying power of the NHS. Consequently Americans pay a lot more for drugs than most other countries.
5. Mis-allocation of resources - money is not allocated where it can do the most good. Cosmetic surgery for the rich is better funded than ante-natal care for the poor.
Its not a question of spending more on health - the US already spends more than any other country in the world - its a question of spending more efficiently.
1. Administrators - because health insurance is so complicated it requires costly administration.
2. Lawyers - hospitals have to pay huge malpractice insurance premiums.
3. Lawyers (again) - Doctors have to pay huge malpractice premiums which drives up doctor's salaries.
4. Drug Companies - The myriad of insurance companies and hospitals lack the buying power of the NHS. Consequently Americans pay a lot more for drugs than most other countries.
5. Mis-allocation of resources - money is not allocated where it can do the most good. Cosmetic surgery for the rich is better funded than ante-natal care for the poor.
Its not a question of spending more on health - the US already spends more than any other country in the world - its a question of spending more efficiently.
What I said was that I thought that the French (and Danish, German, etc) systems were better able to meet the needs of their residents as they restrict who gets care...and the UK population explosion has been linked (linked, not fully responsible for) to UK delays, waits. Again, it's been mentioned as a possibility not the main cause of UK waiting/strain on the system.
In other words, we know what's wrong with the US system and we know what's wrong with the UK system...but what makes the 'other' universal systems work? Do they work?
What is a good model for the US? It's this that we need to learn from, if we ever want change in either country.
Looking at some of the proposed plans for the US I am not convinced that they will work...but there are some good options out there...and if the UK can't make it work than how can we expect the US to do so (not meaning that to be anti-US, but strictly in terms of geography/state laws and so many millions of people).
I feel that the NHS started off as a perfect model but now there are other systems that are better...I'm not sure why...that's what I'm looking to explore.
Last edited by jen_andreson; Jul 22nd 2006 at 8:25 pm.
Jul 22nd 2006, 8:57 pm
#81
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Re: Public or Private Health Care?
Originally Posted by Jerseygirl
This is a difficult one...if you can afford health insurance and co-pays and do not have a long term severe/terminal illness...then the US system wins. If you cannot afford private insurance and all the costs that come with it...the NHS wins...it is healthcare for everyone...but the cost can be waiting for years for surgery.
What I do like about the US system is the preventative healthcare that is offered. A month or so ago my husband had an annual sun cancer screening checkup and was found to have a precancerous mole on his arm. I went to the doctors about 8 weeks ago and because I hadn't been to the surgery for 7 years he sent me for a host of different tests. One test was an EDG...camera down the throat into the upper intestine. This was because my mum and all her 10 siblings had ulcers and my father died of juvenile diabetes/pancreatic cancer. A growth was found at the bottom of my esophagus which turned out to be precancerous, due to over production of stomach acid. I had absolutely no symptoms whatsoever....I have read that the prognosis for cancer of the esophagus is dire. Both of these conditions would not have been detected for years if we had lived in England....even with private insurance.
On the flip side my daughter's schoolfriend suffered for 3 yrs with a very rare and aggressive type of cancer. Both parents had healthcare insurance but when she died they were approx $500,000 in debt.
My mum's doctor in the UK has been treating her for approx 20 yrs for arthritis in her knees. When she was eventually referred to a specialist she had to wait 6 years for surgery. This was 5 years ago...she was then told at the age of 81 she was too frail for major surgery. She is now in constant pain and cannot walk or get up from a chair without assistance.
Of course when it comes to meds. the UK system wins hands down.
What I do like about the US system is the preventative healthcare that is offered. A month or so ago my husband had an annual sun cancer screening checkup and was found to have a precancerous mole on his arm. I went to the doctors about 8 weeks ago and because I hadn't been to the surgery for 7 years he sent me for a host of different tests. One test was an EDG...camera down the throat into the upper intestine. This was because my mum and all her 10 siblings had ulcers and my father died of juvenile diabetes/pancreatic cancer. A growth was found at the bottom of my esophagus which turned out to be precancerous, due to over production of stomach acid. I had absolutely no symptoms whatsoever....I have read that the prognosis for cancer of the esophagus is dire. Both of these conditions would not have been detected for years if we had lived in England....even with private insurance.
On the flip side my daughter's schoolfriend suffered for 3 yrs with a very rare and aggressive type of cancer. Both parents had healthcare insurance but when she died they were approx $500,000 in debt.
My mum's doctor in the UK has been treating her for approx 20 yrs for arthritis in her knees. When she was eventually referred to a specialist she had to wait 6 years for surgery. This was 5 years ago...she was then told at the age of 81 she was too frail for major surgery. She is now in constant pain and cannot walk or get up from a chair without assistance.
Of course when it comes to meds. the UK system wins hands down.
Oh & I just wanted to mention, because of your post about your husband & his mole, I have made an appointment for Friday to see a dermatologist for cancer screening. I got severe sunburn a few times when I was younger, so I wanted to get it checked out, I'll let you know how it goes.
Jul 22nd 2006, 9:02 pm
#82
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Re: Public or Private Health Care?
Originally Posted by Rompers
Immigrants and health tourists sells newspapers because it appeals to a certain sort of mentality. In reality, the biggest drains on the US health system are:
1. Administrators - because health insurance is so complicated it requires costly administration.
2. Lawyers - hospitals have to pay huge malpractice insurance premiums.
3. Lawyers (again) - Doctors have to pay huge malpractice premiums which drives up doctor's salaries.
1. Administrators - because health insurance is so complicated it requires costly administration.
2. Lawyers - hospitals have to pay huge malpractice insurance premiums.
3. Lawyers (again) - Doctors have to pay huge malpractice premiums which drives up doctor's salaries.
4. Drug Companies - The myriad of insurance companies and hospitals lack the buying power of the NHS. Consequently Americans pay a lot more for drugs than most other countries.
5. Mis-allocation of resources - money is not allocated where it can do the most good. Cosmetic surgery for the rich is better funded than ante-natal care for the poor.
Its not a question of spending more on health - the US already spends more than any other country in the world - its a question of spending more efficiently.
Its not a question of spending more on health - the US already spends more than any other country in the world - its a question of spending more efficiently.
Jul 22nd 2006, 9:08 pm
#83
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Re: Public or Private Health Care?
Jen -
I dont think the Healthcare system will get fixed because it involves 2 things that most US voters don't care about: the future and the poor.
I dont think the Healthcare system will get fixed because it involves 2 things that most US voters don't care about: the future and the poor.
Jul 22nd 2006, 9:32 pm
#84
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Re: Public or Private Health Care?
I'm so glad that I grew up in England, if I had been born here, I would probably be dead by now. I have already had 10-15 surgeries in my life & I'm 24. I feel I owe my life to the NHS! Long live the NHS!!! 
Jul 22nd 2006, 9:36 pm
#85
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Re: Public or Private Health Care?
Originally Posted by Rompers
Jen -
I dont think the Healthcare system will get fixed because it involves 2 things that most US voters don't care about: the future and the poor.
I dont think the Healthcare system will get fixed because it involves 2 things that most US voters don't care about: the future and the poor.
I don't think the UK system will get fixed as too many people accept mediocrity (the trains run late, but run for some. The health care runs late but runs for some, etc) and there is no easy way to fix it.
I'm happy to know that I have a choice as to where I live as at least it enables me to live where I have the care that works for me.
Jul 22nd 2006, 9:41 pm
#86
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Re: Public or Private Health Care?
Originally Posted by Partystar
I'm so glad that I grew up in England, if I had been born here, I would probably be dead by now. I have already had 10-15 surgeries in my life & I'm 24. I feel I owe my life to the NHS! Long live the NHS!!!
Jul 22nd 2006, 9:45 pm
#87
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Re: Public or Private Health Care?
Originally Posted by Cape Blue
Over the past 10 years the NHS has added approx 80,000 more nurses and 20,000 more doctors, as well as increasing the pay of all to ensure better retention.
The graph seems to show that there has been some benefit from this investment.
The graph seems to show that there has been some benefit from this investment.
We had an excellent cancer bureau that was implemented while I was there, called the 2 week wait, no was allowed to wait longer than 2 weeks from the time they saw their GP to the appointment. The GP would call the bureau to make the appointment with the patient sat there with them, it was an excellent service, one of which we were given praise from the top man himself. It was rewarding work, I miss it.
Jul 22nd 2006, 9:46 pm
#88
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Re: Public or Private Health Care?
Originally Posted by Cape Blue
Over the past 10 years the NHS has added approx 80,000 more nurses and 20,000 more doctors, as well as increasing the pay of all to ensure better retention.
The graph seems to show that there has been some benefit from this investment.
The graph seems to show that there has been some benefit from this investment.
Jul 22nd 2006, 9:47 pm
#89
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Re: Public or Private Health Care?
Originally Posted by jen_andreson
Wow, that's quite a statement...esp after mentioning you wanted to take advantage of the US preventative care. I'm glad that you had the care you needed, but I don't think you'd be dead...that's quite a statement to make. All doctors and ERs have to treat you, by law, so you would not have died.
Why shouldn't I take advantage of the preventative care, I pay good money for it?!
Jul 22nd 2006, 9:47 pm
#90
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Re: Public or Private Health Care?
Originally Posted by Partystar
Guidelines have also been implemented where there weren't any before. When I first started working for the NHS is 1998, there was no maximum allowable time for a patient to wait for an appointment or surgery, by the time that I left in 2004 the guidelines were, 4 months for an appointment & 9 months for surgery, they were reduced yet again, just after I left. Also bare in mind that these waiting periods were usually only maxed out for patients waiting for appointments/surgeries that were deemed non urgent (sterilisations, vasectomies etc).
We had an excellent cancer bureau that was implemented while I was there, called the 2 week wait, no was allowed to wait longer than 2 weeks from the time they saw their GP to the appointment. The GP would call the bureau to make the appointment with the patient sat there with them, it was an excellent service, one of which we were given praise from the top man himself. It was rewarding work, I miss it.
We had an excellent cancer bureau that was implemented while I was there, called the 2 week wait, no was allowed to wait longer than 2 weeks from the time they saw their GP to the appointment. The GP would call the bureau to make the appointment with the patient sat there with them, it was an excellent service, one of which we were given praise from the top man himself. It was rewarding work, I miss it.
What a fab service! Is it still in operation? Which county was this?