pope is dead
Apr 4th 2005, 2:24 pm
#31
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 21,374
Re: pope is dead
Originally Posted by cornish_pasty
A "servant" of "Christains"? This "servant" lived on a poor, dry land called the Vatican...
Btw, did you mean to say: a servant of God? But then again, what do I know, I'm only a christian, not a christain.
Btw, did you mean to say: a servant of God? But then again, what do I know, I'm only a christian, not a christain.
Again not my own words
If he was just a kindly 84 yr old trying to spread peace and goodwill nobody would be jumping to condemn him. But he wasn't. He was an evil, nasty, bully of a man who dies with the blood of literally millions on his hands.
Only by ignoring the facts can you adopt the tone you have. You haven't had any children raped by any of his priests, I would guess, but if you had you might feel differently. And make no mistake, he was responsible, because he implemented the policy of moving priests to another parish and paying off the victims to buy their silence. That policy led to the paedophiles molesting yet more children instead of being convicted and locked away to protect society.
4,500 priests in the US alone face credible charges of molestation. Think about that for a minute. Now think about the fact that your Pope knew about them, did nothing to stop them and even protected them so they could carry on abusing kids.
Now are you starting to see why some people might object to all the media scenes of grief anf frenzy at a man like this?
And then there's AIDS. I help to raise money every year for a hospice in Kenya called Nyumbani. Nyumbani caters for HIV positive orphans, possible the saddest kids on the face of the earth. Their parents died of AIDS and they face a death sentence themselves.
There are no hospices for HIV positive orphans in neighbouring Uganda. Want to know why? Because Uganda defied your saintly Pope ten years ago and in the teeth of opposition from the vatican started to distribute condoms widely. Today Uganda has virtually eliminated HIV. It is the world's great success story.
In Kenya, the Pope's bishops organise mass burning of condoms on public bonfires. They tell Kenyans that the fires of hell await anyone who uses one. As a result, Kenya, like mots of Africa, has a soaring HIV infection rate and orphanages like Nyumbani trying to cope with the human consequences of the catastrophe.
I've been to Nyumbani and seen the kids, some of them just infants. They will all be dead in less than ten years. Go there, mate, and see how you feel about this ****ing Pope when you come out.
His media machine spat out images of him kissing tarmac and waving to the crowds all over the world. So what? Judge him by what he did. He was a truly appalling human being, and history will judge him when the hysteria over his death has receded.
Apr 4th 2005, 2:57 pm
#32
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Joined: Aug 2004
Location: Tampa, FL
Posts: 3,338
Re: pope is dead
Originally Posted by fraser
Again not my own words
If he was just a kindly 84 yr old trying to spread peace and goodwill nobody would be jumping to condemn him. But he wasn't. He was an evil, nasty, bully of a man who dies with the blood of literally millions on his hands.
Only by ignoring the facts can you adopt the tone you have. You haven't had any children raped by any of his priests, I would guess, but if you had you might feel differently. And make no mistake, he was responsible, because he implemented the policy of moving priests to another parish and paying off the victims to buy their silence. That policy led to the paedophiles molesting yet more children instead of being convicted and locked away to protect society.
4,500 priests in the US alone face credible charges of molestation. Think about that for a minute. Now think about the fact that your Pope knew about them, did nothing to stop them and even protected them so they could carry on abusing kids.
Now are you starting to see why some people might object to all the media scenes of grief anf frenzy at a man like this?
And then there's AIDS. I help to raise money every year for a hospice in Kenya called Nyumbani. Nyumbani caters for HIV positive orphans, possible the saddest kids on the face of the earth. Their parents died of AIDS and they face a death sentence themselves.
There are no hospices for HIV positive orphans in neighbouring Uganda. Want to know why? Because Uganda defied your saintly Pope ten years ago and in the teeth of opposition from the vatican started to distribute condoms widely. Today Uganda has virtually eliminated HIV. It is the world's great success story.
In Kenya, the Pope's bishops organise mass burning of condoms on public bonfires. They tell Kenyans that the fires of hell await anyone who uses one. As a result, Kenya, like mots of Africa, has a soaring HIV infection rate and orphanages like Nyumbani trying to cope with the human consequences of the catastrophe.
I've been to Nyumbani and seen the kids, some of them just infants. They will all be dead in less than ten years. Go there, mate, and see how you feel about this ****ing Pope when you come out.
His media machine spat out images of him kissing tarmac and waving to the crowds all over the world. So what? Judge him by what he did. He was a truly appalling human being, and history will judge him when the hysteria over his death has receded.
If he was just a kindly 84 yr old trying to spread peace and goodwill nobody would be jumping to condemn him. But he wasn't. He was an evil, nasty, bully of a man who dies with the blood of literally millions on his hands.
Only by ignoring the facts can you adopt the tone you have. You haven't had any children raped by any of his priests, I would guess, but if you had you might feel differently. And make no mistake, he was responsible, because he implemented the policy of moving priests to another parish and paying off the victims to buy their silence. That policy led to the paedophiles molesting yet more children instead of being convicted and locked away to protect society.
4,500 priests in the US alone face credible charges of molestation. Think about that for a minute. Now think about the fact that your Pope knew about them, did nothing to stop them and even protected them so they could carry on abusing kids.
Now are you starting to see why some people might object to all the media scenes of grief anf frenzy at a man like this?
And then there's AIDS. I help to raise money every year for a hospice in Kenya called Nyumbani. Nyumbani caters for HIV positive orphans, possible the saddest kids on the face of the earth. Their parents died of AIDS and they face a death sentence themselves.
There are no hospices for HIV positive orphans in neighbouring Uganda. Want to know why? Because Uganda defied your saintly Pope ten years ago and in the teeth of opposition from the vatican started to distribute condoms widely. Today Uganda has virtually eliminated HIV. It is the world's great success story.
In Kenya, the Pope's bishops organise mass burning of condoms on public bonfires. They tell Kenyans that the fires of hell await anyone who uses one. As a result, Kenya, like mots of Africa, has a soaring HIV infection rate and orphanages like Nyumbani trying to cope with the human consequences of the catastrophe.
I've been to Nyumbani and seen the kids, some of them just infants. They will all be dead in less than ten years. Go there, mate, and see how you feel about this ****ing Pope when you come out.
His media machine spat out images of him kissing tarmac and waving to the crowds all over the world. So what? Judge him by what he did. He was a truly appalling human being, and history will judge him when the hysteria over his death has receded.
Now, I'm no big fan of the pope and am sort of agnostic as far as religion goes, but, each to their own - surely he wasn't that bad!!!! :scared: You make him out to be the Son of the Devil!
Apr 4th 2005, 2:57 pm
#33
Just Joined
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 22
Re: pope is dead
Originally Posted by fraser
In Kenya, the Pope's bishops organise mass burning of condoms on public bonfires. They tell Kenyans that the fires of hell await anyone who uses one. As a result, Kenya, like mots of Africa, has a soaring HIV infection rate and orphanages like Nyumbani trying to cope with the human consequences of the catastrophe.
Apr 4th 2005, 3:02 pm
#34
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 21,374
Re: pope is dead
Originally Posted by Dan725
Now, I'm no big fan of the pope and am sort of agnostic as far as religion goes, but, each to their own - surely he wasn't that bad!!!! :scared: You make him out to be the Son of the Devil!
The man is responsible for more deaths than hitler, his weapon? guilt.
Apr 4th 2005, 3:03 pm
#35
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,095
Re: pope is dead
Originally Posted by fraser
The man is responsible for more deaths than hitler, his weapon? guilt.
Apr 4th 2005, 3:06 pm
#36
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 21,374
Re: pope is dead
Originally Posted by Pigtails
Now that is quite a stretch!
How many Africans do you think have died of aids that were denied condoms on the basis that they would burn in hell
Apr 4th 2005, 3:07 pm
#37
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 21,374
Re: pope is dead
Originally Posted by Pigtails
Now that is quite a stretch!
Sent you some K for your avatar
Apr 4th 2005, 3:20 pm
#38
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Joined: Aug 2004
Location: Tampa, FL
Posts: 3,338
Re: pope is dead
Originally Posted by fraser
How many Africans do you think have died of aids that were denied condoms on the basis that they would burn in hell
The condom thing is pretty bad sounding though....
Apr 4th 2005, 3:23 pm
#39
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 21,374
Re: pope is dead
Originally Posted by Dan725
Yes that is pretty bad and I think the Vatican is somewhat guilty of not moving with the times and is grossly outdated, but surely they did some good over there, with regards to attempting to build some values in for the people? I mean, without any sort of outside influence there may well have been more starvation and unsanitary conditions maybe? The condom thing is pretty bad sounding though....
The condom thing is pretty bad sounding though....Where's the values in sinning and then confessing all to a man in a box and being told your of scott free
Apr 4th 2005, 3:29 pm
#40
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Location: Tampa, FL
Posts: 3,338
Re: pope is dead
Originally Posted by fraser
Where's the values in sinning and then confessing all to a man in a box and being told your of scott free
I was thinking more along the lines of the missionarys helping out with water supplies and teaching the ten commandments etc. Like I said, I'm no big religious fan, and the coverage of the pope on CNN is grating badly right now with a boring commentator and some shocking songs going on, but I don't think you can equate them to Adolf!! Hmm having said that, it only takes a quick look at the worlds history right up to present day to see what happens when the religious club get carried away....not just the RC religion either....
Apr 4th 2005, 4:46 pm
#41
Lapine Member
Joined: Nov 2004
Location: Austin, Texas in my own little world
Posts: 21,691
Re: pope is dead
Remember that this is a pope who believed that suffering was an integral part of spiritual life. Since I've lived on or near the Mexican border nearly all my life, I've seen the effects of overpopulation, and lives lost trying to cross the border to get work. I do not agree with many of the Catholic church's teachings.
However, one point I would like to make that explains a lot of the AIDS spread in Africa is down to men's refusal to wear condoms and women's powerlessness to insist that they do. Also, roads built to haul goods across the continent have made it faster for people and diseases to move rapidly as well. Many men have left villages to find work in the cities; they have a wife or a regular prostitute in the city, then visit their wives in the villages at the weekend.
There are also numerous sexual practices that put a woman at greater risk of contracting HIV if exposed, one of which is that female sexual excitement is frowned upon. This is one of the reasons for female "circumcision." So in some cultures, the woman will dry herself out just before sex, using leaves, paper, etc. This means that the vaginal lining is going to provide a lot of friction, but it's also going to suffer a lot of microtears which are entry points for the virus.
This is why the virus has spread so much more rapidly in Africa than in Latin America. I still think it is highly irresponsible for the Catholic Church to frown upon condom use, but the vast majority of the causes of African HIV are not coming from following a papal edict.
However, one point I would like to make that explains a lot of the AIDS spread in Africa is down to men's refusal to wear condoms and women's powerlessness to insist that they do. Also, roads built to haul goods across the continent have made it faster for people and diseases to move rapidly as well. Many men have left villages to find work in the cities; they have a wife or a regular prostitute in the city, then visit their wives in the villages at the weekend.
There are also numerous sexual practices that put a woman at greater risk of contracting HIV if exposed, one of which is that female sexual excitement is frowned upon. This is one of the reasons for female "circumcision." So in some cultures, the woman will dry herself out just before sex, using leaves, paper, etc. This means that the vaginal lining is going to provide a lot of friction, but it's also going to suffer a lot of microtears which are entry points for the virus.
This is why the virus has spread so much more rapidly in Africa than in Latin America. I still think it is highly irresponsible for the Catholic Church to frown upon condom use, but the vast majority of the causes of African HIV are not coming from following a papal edict.
Apr 6th 2005, 10:12 am
#42
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 17
Re: pope is dead
Originally Posted by fraser
Not my own words but true.
This was the most centralised Vatican regime in history. He ruled it for a quarter of a century as the religious equivalent of a totalitarian dictator.
As a consequence, everything that went on in the Church in that period is down to him. The buck stops firmly at his desk. So don't try to argue that he was innocent of the paedophile scandals because he wasn't.
It is safe to assume that (a) he knew all about it; (b) he ordered the cover up that prevented the paedophiles from being caught; and (c) he considered the reputation of the Church more important than the protection of our children from the perverted monsters in his own ranks.
How you can have any sympathy for the man is beyond me. As I say, talk to someone whose child has been molested by one of JPII's priests and ask them how they feel about him.
This is child rape on a huge scale we're talking about - I can't imagine anything more heinous. And your Pope is responsible for it.
This was the most centralised Vatican regime in history. He ruled it for a quarter of a century as the religious equivalent of a totalitarian dictator.
As a consequence, everything that went on in the Church in that period is down to him. The buck stops firmly at his desk. So don't try to argue that he was innocent of the paedophile scandals because he wasn't.
It is safe to assume that (a) he knew all about it; (b) he ordered the cover up that prevented the paedophiles from being caught; and (c) he considered the reputation of the Church more important than the protection of our children from the perverted monsters in his own ranks.
How you can have any sympathy for the man is beyond me. As I say, talk to someone whose child has been molested by one of JPII's priests and ask them how they feel about him.
This is child rape on a huge scale we're talking about - I can't imagine anything more heinous. And your Pope is responsible for it.
Again you miss my point. First he is not my Pope. I am not a Catholic. But a Christian- one who believes in and follows christ. I would not be in defense of the actions of men. The last time I checked the Gospels speaks against sin.
I have pointed to you to read the bible and SEE the leader.
Apr 6th 2005, 10:15 am
#43
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 17
Re: pope is dead
Originally Posted by cindyabs
I am a Christian as defined by the correct SPELLING and definition in the dictionary.
Apr 6th 2005, 10:16 am
#44
Lapine Member
Joined: Nov 2004
Location: Austin, Texas in my own little world
Posts: 21,691
Re: pope is dead
Originally Posted by FIRSTIMER
Again you miss my point. First he is not my Pope. I am not a Catholic. But a Christian- one who believes in and follows christ. I would not be in defense of the actions of men. The last time I checked the Gospels speaks against sin.
I have pointed to you to read the bible and SEE the leader.
I have pointed to you to read the bible and SEE the leader.
Apr 6th 2005, 10:29 am
#45
Just Joined
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 17
Re: pope is dead
Originally Posted by cornish_pasty
A "servant" of "Christains"? This "servant" lived on a poor, dry land called the Vatican...
Btw, did you mean to say: a servant of God? But then again, what do I know, I'm only a christian, not a christain.
Btw, did you mean to say: a servant of God? But then again, what do I know, I'm only a christian, not a christain.
Unfortunate, because the one I sent a reply has not criticised my spelling, but a Christain.