pension problems
Oct 16th 2009, 3:00 am
#46
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Re: pension problems
Alba. I'm still unclear how long you've been working in the US and how many UK VC payments you'll be able to make. When exactly did you start looking into expat NI contributions and when did the UK pensions dept misinform you about VC? If you are of pensionable age then the UK authorities will only be able to include your previous NI contributions and at most 6 years of retrospective VC contributions. Did you know anything about paying Class 2 NI contributions as an expat before applyinmg to the UK pension service?
Oct 16th 2009, 3:06 am
#47
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Joined: Oct 2006
Location: USA
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Re: pension problems
Yes I have sufficient quarters for a US pension. However I am presently receiving a widow's pension. My pension is still accumulating in US and if at any time it is more than now, then I can change it over. this of course is a sep. issue from UK. There, I don't have enough quarters to qualify for the minimum
so they would have either 1. used my US quarters to qualify or I could have paid voluntary contributions if they had informed me correctly when I inquired.
This inquiry was not just once but I spoke at various times to different departments , different people and all told me the same thing. 10 years required and if you don't have it you are not entitled. You are correct, I can pay 2 years but it would not bring me up to 10 and they would just duplicate 2 of my US years so would not help. According to the pension office part of the reason all of this is delayed is that they have to get my actual records fromthe archives and make sure that nothing is duplicated in the US as if records are the same they cancel out. My argument is if they had responded to my inquiries correctly even in 2008 when there was correspondence I would have been within the time frame to pay and would have done so.
Also I think that there was a special circumstance that gave longer to pay certain years due to a government error and that they were supposed to be actively promoting this so people could pay. (Don't have all the info for this in front of me right now so facts are a bit sketchy)
so they would have either 1. used my US quarters to qualify or I could have paid voluntary contributions if they had informed me correctly when I inquired.
This inquiry was not just once but I spoke at various times to different departments , different people and all told me the same thing. 10 years required and if you don't have it you are not entitled. You are correct, I can pay 2 years but it would not bring me up to 10 and they would just duplicate 2 of my US years so would not help. According to the pension office part of the reason all of this is delayed is that they have to get my actual records fromthe archives and make sure that nothing is duplicated in the US as if records are the same they cancel out. My argument is if they had responded to my inquiries correctly even in 2008 when there was correspondence I would have been within the time frame to pay and would have done so.
Also I think that there was a special circumstance that gave longer to pay certain years due to a government error and that they were supposed to be actively promoting this so people could pay. (Don't have all the info for this in front of me right now so facts are a bit sketchy)
Paid up full in the US is the total of the highest paid 35 years you ever worked. All the other years are dropped of.
So if you had 35 years in US you would get the full pension.
Plus if you had 4 years in the UK, you would get 1/30th of a full pension, multiplied by 4.
Two separate checks.
Oct 16th 2009, 3:36 am
#48
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Re: pension problems
In the UK you don't need 11 years minimum anymore. You can get paid for 1 year. The pension is paid up full in 30 years. For every year that you have worked in the UK you get 1/30th of a pension. Multiple however many years you worked, by 1/30th of the full state pension.
Paid up full in the US is the total of the highest paid 35 years you ever worked. All the other years are dropped of.
So if you had 35 years in US you would get the full pension.
Plus if you had 4 years in the UK, you would get 1/30th of a full pension, multiplied by 4.
Two separate checks.
Paid up full in the US is the total of the highest paid 35 years you ever worked. All the other years are dropped of.
So if you had 35 years in US you would get the full pension.
Plus if you had 4 years in the UK, you would get 1/30th of a full pension, multiplied by 4.
Two separate checks.
pension age so years needed for my age is 10 to qualify for 1/4 basic State Pension and I think 39 years is max for women and 44 for men. It's more involved than US as payments are dependent on age Also, in US your pension increases every year that you defer taking it and receives special incentives to wait until age 70 I believe. If you continue to work and pay after 70 I believe it will increase also but don't know what happens if you are entitled to maximum. Us pension depends on how much you pay in. Yes, there is a minimum time required. I think 10 years. Benefits are tied into what you paid from tax of 15% of net income. This is mostly divided between employer and employee unless you are self employed and pay full 15%.
Oct 16th 2009, 1:16 pm
#49
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Re: pension problems
No, I know nothing about class2 contributions and as stated above, have enough US years. They have nothing to do with UK pensions. Nun, I am trying to be patient but are you interrogating me or trying to help? I feel I have already volunteered more than enough information. I asked for feedback as I am very frustrated with the whole process and am sharing what happens to help other people. Anyway, I am past all of this and unless I can pay Class 2 retroactively and enough to make a difference they are irrelevant to my problem
Unfortunately i think that you'll find it hard to get the pensions service to budge. But you do have the US pension, which is a good benefit. I think your situation must be frustrating, but it should be a lesson for UK expats that it's best to stay in the NI system and pay Class 2 contributions. That way you'll be able to get enough contributions to qualify for the pension.
One thing that may help how you feel is the US Windfall Elimination Provision. This reduces your US SS if you get another pension. There is a calculator of the US SS website that helps you estimate this reduction. In my case I have 15 years of US SS payments and qualify for $1150/month at age 62. If I include the $600/month of a UK basic state pension this reduces my US SS payment to $950/month. So not getting the UK benefit isn't quite as bad as it might initially seem.
Last edited by nun; Oct 16th 2009 at 1:18 pm.
Oct 16th 2009, 3:29 pm
#50
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Location: Canada
Posts: 144
Re: pension problems
I suppose I am interrogating you, but I hope in s good way. I was just unclear about your exact situation and that is going to be critical to how the pensions service deals with your case.
Unfortunately i think that you'll find it hard to get the pensions service to budge. But you do have the US pension, which is a good benefit. I think your situation must be frustrating, but it should be a lesson for UK expats that it's best to stay in the NI system and pay Class 2 contributions. That way you'll be able to get enough contributions to qualify for the pension.
One thing that may help how you feel is the US Windfall Elimination Provision. This reduces your US SS if you get another pension. There is a calculator of the US SS website that helps you estimate this reduction. In my case I have 15 years of US SS payments and qualify for $1150/month at age 62. If I include the $600/month of a UK basic state pension this reduces my US SS payment to $950/month. So not getting the UK benefit isn't quite as bad as it might initially seem.
Unfortunately i think that you'll find it hard to get the pensions service to budge. But you do have the US pension, which is a good benefit. I think your situation must be frustrating, but it should be a lesson for UK expats that it's best to stay in the NI system and pay Class 2 contributions. That way you'll be able to get enough contributions to qualify for the pension.
One thing that may help how you feel is the US Windfall Elimination Provision. This reduces your US SS if you get another pension. There is a calculator of the US SS website that helps you estimate this reduction. In my case I have 15 years of US SS payments and qualify for $1150/month at age 62. If I include the $600/month of a UK basic state pension this reduces my US SS payment to $950/month. So not getting the UK benefit isn't quite as bad as it might initially seem.
Oct 16th 2009, 4:06 pm
#51
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Re: pension problems
http://www.ssa.gov/retire2/wep-chart.htm
Oct 16th 2009, 7:43 pm
#52
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Re: pension problems
I suppose I am interrogating you, but I hope in s good way. I was just unclear about your exact situation and that is going to be critical to how the pensions service deals with your case.
Unfortunately i think that you'll find it hard to get the pensions service to budge. But you do have the US pension, which is a good benefit. I think your situation must be frustrating, but it should be a lesson for UK expats that it's best to stay in the NI system and pay Class 2 contributions. That way you'll be able to get enough contributions to qualify for the pension.
One thing that may help how you feel is the US Windfall Elimination Provision. This reduces your US SS if you get another pension. There is a calculator of the US SS website that helps you estimate this reduction. In my case I have 15 years of US SS payments and qualify for $1150/month at age 62. If I include the $600/month of a UK basic state pension this reduces my US SS payment to $950/month. So not getting the UK benefit isn't quite as bad as it might initially seem.
Unfortunately i think that you'll find it hard to get the pensions service to budge. But you do have the US pension, which is a good benefit. I think your situation must be frustrating, but it should be a lesson for UK expats that it's best to stay in the NI system and pay Class 2 contributions. That way you'll be able to get enough contributions to qualify for the pension.
One thing that may help how you feel is the US Windfall Elimination Provision. This reduces your US SS if you get another pension. There is a calculator of the US SS website that helps you estimate this reduction. In my case I have 15 years of US SS payments and qualify for $1150/month at age 62. If I include the $600/month of a UK basic state pension this reduces my US SS payment to $950/month. So not getting the UK benefit isn't quite as bad as it might initially seem.
I have not received an answer yet to an extension of time to pay Voluntary contributions I received a year's back payment and the first monthly payment has been processed but not arrived as of yet. However I was told that an extension of time has been requested for me to pay VC due to my having received wrong information and lack of information. Now I have to wait for an answer.
Oct 16th 2009, 9:47 pm
#53
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Joined: Jun 2009
Location: Canada
Posts: 144
Re: pension problems
Here it is, the link to the calculator is a little down the page. You have to manually type in your wage history, but you should have that in the US SS forcast that you get every year.
http://www.ssa.gov/retire2/wep-chart.htm
http://www.ssa.gov/retire2/wep-chart.htm
Oct 17th 2009, 8:48 am
#54
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Joined: Jul 2002
Location: Dreich Alba
Posts: 12,006
Re: pension problems
I suppose I am interrogating you, but I hope in s good way. I was just unclear about your exact situation and that is going to be critical to how the pensions service deals with your case.
Unfortunately i think that you'll find it hard to get the pensions service to budge. But you do have the US pension, which is a good benefit. I think your situation must be frustrating, but it should be a lesson for UK expats that it's best to stay in the NI system and pay Class 2 contributions. That way you'll be able to get enough contributions to qualify for the pension.
One thing that may help how you feel is the US Windfall Elimination Provision. This reduces your US SS if you get another pension. There is a calculator of the US SS website that helps you estimate this reduction. In my case I have 15 years of US SS payments and qualify for $1150/month at age 62. If I include the $600/month of a UK basic state pension this reduces my US SS payment to $950/month. So not getting the UK benefit isn't quite as bad as it might initially seem.
Unfortunately i think that you'll find it hard to get the pensions service to budge. But you do have the US pension, which is a good benefit. I think your situation must be frustrating, but it should be a lesson for UK expats that it's best to stay in the NI system and pay Class 2 contributions. That way you'll be able to get enough contributions to qualify for the pension.
One thing that may help how you feel is the US Windfall Elimination Provision. This reduces your US SS if you get another pension. There is a calculator of the US SS website that helps you estimate this reduction. In my case I have 15 years of US SS payments and qualify for $1150/month at age 62. If I include the $600/month of a UK basic state pension this reduces my US SS payment to $950/month. So not getting the UK benefit isn't quite as bad as it might initially seem.
Oct 17th 2009, 1:58 pm
#55
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Posts: 4,754
Re: pension problems
http://www.ssa.gov/pubs/10045.html
When you apply for SS you should be asked about other pensions you are receiving.
Oct 17th 2009, 2:50 pm
#56
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Re: pension problems
The Windfall Elimination Provision is applied when you receive a pension from work where you don't pay social security taxes ie. FICA. This mostly applies to US state workers who pay into a state's retirement plan and don't contribute to social security, but who also have SS credits from a previous job. However, any pension you get that is from work were you don't pay FICA taxes is also included, so UK state and private pensions too.
http://www.ssa.gov/pubs/10045.html
When you apply for SS you should be asked about other pensions you are receiving.
http://www.ssa.gov/pubs/10045.html
When you apply for SS you should be asked about other pensions you are receiving.
Oct 18th 2009, 3:05 am
#57
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Re: pension problems
.....ok so now I'm confused. You have US SS, and a widow's pension. Where is that widow's pension coming from? Does the US SS treat UK widow's benefit's differently from UK basic state pension? The WEP rules just say that it applies to any pension that comes from work where SS taxes aren't paid so surely any benefit form the UK would be included.
Last edited by nun; Oct 18th 2009 at 3:59 am.
Oct 18th 2009, 4:32 am
#58
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Re: pension problems
Windfall Elimination Provisions
If you are entitled to a UK State Pension based on work after 1956, the amount of your US Retirement or Disability Benefit may be reduced in certain circumstances because of provisions in US law (Windfall Elimination Provisions).
However, your US benefit will never be reduced by more than one half of that part of your UK State Pension based on work after 1956. Any part of your UK State Pension based on voluntary contributions to the UK will not affect the amount of your US benefit.
Entitlement to UK widows' benefits and bereavement benefits, however, will not cause a reduction in your US benefit. If you are a woman in receipt of UK Widow's Benefit, it may be better to continue getting that benefit until age 65 rather than claim UK State Pension at age 60.
Oct 18th 2009, 6:35 am
#59
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Re: pension problems
So I just found this paragraph on a UK gov website. It looks like the portion of your UK state pension that is due to voluntary contributions is NOT counted in the WEP. So this is another reason for UK citizens in the US who are paying FICA to also keep up those voluntary Class 2 NI contributions.
Windfall Elimination Provisions
If you are entitled to a UK State Pension based on work after 1956, the amount of your US Retirement or Disability Benefit may be reduced in certain circumstances because of provisions in US law (Windfall Elimination Provisions).
However, your US benefit will never be reduced by more than one half of that part of your UK State Pension based on work after 1956. Any part of your UK State Pension based on voluntary contributions to the UK will not affect the amount of your US benefit.
Entitlement to UK widows' benefits and bereavement benefits, however, will not cause a reduction in your US benefit. If you are a woman in receipt of UK Widow's Benefit, it may be better to continue getting that benefit until age 65 rather than claim UK State Pension at age 60.
Windfall Elimination Provisions
If you are entitled to a UK State Pension based on work after 1956, the amount of your US Retirement or Disability Benefit may be reduced in certain circumstances because of provisions in US law (Windfall Elimination Provisions).
However, your US benefit will never be reduced by more than one half of that part of your UK State Pension based on work after 1956. Any part of your UK State Pension based on voluntary contributions to the UK will not affect the amount of your US benefit.
Entitlement to UK widows' benefits and bereavement benefits, however, will not cause a reduction in your US benefit. If you are a woman in receipt of UK Widow's Benefit, it may be better to continue getting that benefit until age 65 rather than claim UK State Pension at age 60.
I have US widow's pension and now small UK pension. I have worked in US for enough years to be eligible for a pension. You cannot collect on both your own and survivors so the larger of the two is collected and if working continue to contribute to my own work record. If at any time my benefits are more than survivors then I can change to collecting from mine. Hopefully this will clear up any confusion. (It sure would be nice to be able to collect multiples as you thought...ah well, maybe someday....LOL
Oct 18th 2009, 6:49 am
#60
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Re: pension problems
.....ok so now I'm confused. You have US SS, and a widow's pension. Where is that widow's pension coming from? Does the US SS treat UK widow's benefit's differently from UK basic state pension? The WEP rules just say that it applies to any pension that comes from work where SS taxes aren't paid so surely any benefit form the UK would be included.
In US even as a divorced spouse, as long as you were married for 10 years you are entitled to claim spousal and/or widows benefits. This applies even if you have remarried. As long as any subsequent marriage has ended and you are single at time of application for benefits, US will calculate benefits due on your own and ALL qualified spousal benefits and allow you collect on the largest. Also re-marriage after age 60 will not effect spousal pension.
The UK only considers the last marriage. I hope this information is helpful.