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Pension Chat

Pension Chat

Old Apr 9th 2019, 11:55 pm
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Default Pension Chat

I was hoping to start a conversation regarding the auto-enrolment in UK pension schemes

The auto-enrolment of pensions that occurred in 2012 was to assist younger persons in the UK to start saving for retirement. Even though the UK pension is setup as a trust as pretty much all occupational work pensions are now in the UK would this not be considered the same type of "trust" that the IRS is referring to when they mention "Foreign trust" , as this pension type was created recently within the past decade how have BE Expats residing in the US/UK treated this for tax purposes?

I am interested to hear as many US persons moving to the UK may find themselves participating in such a work based pension scheme and some expats in the US may previously be a part of such pension scheme. Do you use foreign grantor trust rules of whom contributed more to the pension to determine if it would be deemed a foreign grantor trust or do you treat it as a regular pension with no reporting until distributions at retirement.

For those whom have defined benefit plans I read that there is no fbar or 8938 reporting per https://www.irsmedic.com/blog/2015/0...n-taxable.html

Last edited by dee98; Apr 10th 2019 at 12:24 am.
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Old Apr 9th 2019, 11:57 pm
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Default Re: Pension Chat

Are you still stressed?

Nice cut and paste job.
Do you have a specific question?

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Old Apr 10th 2019, 12:04 am
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Default Re: Pension Chat

Yes! as someone who suffers from severe anxiety trying to gather and make sense of all of this can be quite challenging though i do feel I have picked up on alot and I am thankful to users like yourself who have been very helpful.

I am looking to hear other users thoughts who may have been in such pension scheme and how they treated it as this pension scheme type was introduced about 7-8 years ago.

I did find a great conversation relating to group workplace pensions on this topic https://britishexpats.com/forum/usa-...-829150/page2/

Last edited by dee98; Apr 10th 2019 at 12:07 am.
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Old Apr 10th 2019, 12:06 am
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Default Re: Pension Chat

Originally Posted by dee98 View Post
I am looking to hear other users thoughts who may have been in such pension scheme and how they treated it as this occurred about 7 years ago.

I did find a great conversation relating to group workplace pensions on this topic https://britishexpats.com/forum/usa-...-829150/page2/

What's your question?
Is it the same one you've already asked on several other threads here and on the 'uk-yankee' site?
The same one that many of us have spent significant time answering?
https://britishexpats.com/forum/usa-...-trust-923743/
https://britishexpats.com/forum/usa-...ed-out-923865/

Last edited by Hotscot; Apr 10th 2019 at 12:11 am.
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Old Apr 10th 2019, 12:13 am
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Default Re: Pension Chat

Hi Hotscot,

I am looking to hear from others whom may have been in such a pension scheme recently and how they reported it, did they treat it as a regular pension scheme did they declare it as a trust. I know others have provided input though could their advice be based on this particular pension scheme or just about pensions in general that is where I am unsure.

I did find this topic where others were discussing the pension scheme before the government enrolled it out. https://talk.uk-yankee.com/index.php?topic=74684.0

Last edited by dee98; Apr 10th 2019 at 12:16 am.
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Old Apr 10th 2019, 12:16 am
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Default Re: Pension Chat

Try here perhaps?

https://britishexpats.com/forum/usa-...-trust-923743/
https://britishexpats.com/forum/usa-...ed-out-923865/

Fortunately someone's already been asking those exact questions...

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Old Apr 10th 2019, 12:32 am
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Default Re: Pension Chat

Thanks hotscot, I did reread those topics and find that I am most likely overthinking all of this.

From what I have learned would I be correct in saying for anyone whom has an automatic-enrolled UK pension whether it be a Brit living in the US or an American working in the UK would be the first question to ask whom contributed more to it? If your employer contributed 50% or more this would not be a foreign grantor trust however if the employee contributed more than 50% this would result in it being a foreign grantor trust and would require additional paperwork?
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Old Apr 10th 2019, 12:39 am
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Default Re: Pension Chat

Originally Posted by dee98 View Post
Yes! as someone who suffers from severe anxiety trying to gather and make sense of all of this can be quite challenging though i do feel I have picked up on alot and I am thankful to users like yourself who have been very helpful. ...
Are you a millionaire with substantial tax-advantaged off-shore trusts that you're using to, er, "minimize" your tax liability to Uncle Sam?

No? As I thought! …. Therefore, honestly Uncle Sam doesn't really care much, either about you, or your tax affairs - I mean, you are expected to fill in the forms, but unless you've obviously defrauded the IRS, nobody is going to pay much attention; really, they aren't! I suspect that your tax affairs, from the perspective of the IRS, aren't so much as a gnat bite on an elephant's arse, so seriously, calm down! Report as best you can, following the rules as you, and any advisers you retain best understand them, because at the end of the day, it isn't going to make any difference.

Last edited by Pulaski; Apr 10th 2019 at 1:20 am.
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Old Apr 10th 2019, 1:12 am
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Default Re: Pension Chat

Thank you very much Pulaski,

You made me chuckle with the elephant reference, this forum has a great bunch of folk on it whom are extremely helpful!

..You are right I am definitely overthinking it all, I just wanted confirmation about the status of my pension plan regarding whether it should be reported as anything other than a pension plan on a FBAR/8938 (when applicable) and when I take distributions from it at retirement age.
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Old Apr 10th 2019, 1:19 am
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Default Re: Pension Chat

Originally Posted by dee98 View Post
Thank you very much Pulaski,

You made me chuckle with the elephant reference, this forum has a great bunch of folk on it whom are extremely helpful! …
You're welcome!
...You are right I am definitely overthinking it all, I just wanted confirmation about the status of my pension plan regarding whether it should be reported as anything other than a pension plan on a FBAR/8938 (when applicable) and when I take distributions from it at retirement age.
Agreed, I'd keep it simple and report it like any other pension on your FBAR.
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Old Apr 10th 2019, 1:20 am
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Default Re: Pension Chat

Originally Posted by dee98 View Post
this forum has a great bunch of folk on it whom are extremely helpful!
And from whom you ignore the advice given.
And this is now the third thread, on this site, where you continue to ask the same obsessive questions.
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Old Apr 10th 2019, 2:16 am
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Default Re: Pension Chat

Originally Posted by Hotscot View Post
And from whom you ignore the advice given.
And this is now the third thread, on this site, where you continue to ask the same obsessive questions.
​​​
I greatly appreciate your help and all other members help I am not ignoring it by any means. I think you are brilliant and have helped me so much, if I have annoyed you before I apologise again. I think you are a top bloke and I'm genuinely thankful for everything mate.

From what I have learned in the other threads would I be correct in saying for anyone whom has an automatic-enrolled UK pension whether it be a Brit living in the US or an American working in the UK would be the first question to ask whom contributed more to it? If your employer contributed 50% or more this would not be a foreign grantor trust however if the employee contributed more than 50% this would result in it being a foreign grantor trust and would then require additional paperwork?

By doing the above if it is not a foreign grantor trust it is just a regular occupational pension that is reported on a FBAR/8938 when applicable.
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Old Apr 10th 2019, 3:40 am
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Default Re: Pension Chat

Hey Dee.
No PM's as I've told you. I deleted it unread.
Be glad to chat here or in Trailer Park.
You're quite entertaining.
I suspect you like being part of the community...but tone it down a bit. Slow down.
You're coming across as obsessively neurotic.

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Old Apr 10th 2019, 11:41 am
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Default Re: Pension Chat

No worries I was not asking any questions I actually said in it I'll leave that to the topic in the forum. I just said I apologise if I annoyed you in anyway it was not my intention and that I genuinely thank you for all your help you have been brilliant. Yes I do think this forum is fantastic and will do my best to tone it down.

I found this interesting article about UK/US Expats and Pension Scheme's, article can be found at the bottom of the page when visiting link below

https://www.groom.com/resources/view...nsion-schemes/

Last edited by dee98; Apr 10th 2019 at 11:58 am.
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Old Apr 10th 2019, 12:02 pm
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Default Re: Pension Chat

Originally Posted by dee98 View Post
Thank you very much Pulaski,

You made me chuckle with the elephant reference, this forum has a great bunch of folk on it whom are extremely helpful!

..You are right I am definitely overthinking it all, I just wanted confirmation about the status of my pension plan regarding whether it should be reported as anything other than a pension plan on a FBAR/8938 (when applicable) and when I take distributions from it at retirement age.
Overthinking...anxious...and also not 'getting it'.

Often with US taxation there is no 'correct' answer, but instead there are a number of acceptable answers and the path an individual chooses is their choice. You've put a lot of effort into this question - don't you think if there was a clear, definitive answer you would have found it? I feel even if it was delivered to you, you'd still question it. If you go searching for rules about endowment policies, lump sums, and other 'simple' things you'll see that there are no clear rules to follow. Ask 3 'experts' and you'll get at least 2 answers. You've been given enough information by now. Make a choice that you can live with. Action it. Get on with life.

How close to retirement are you? Today's rules could be quite different to those you will face at retirement. If you are thinking more than a handful of years ahead you are wasting a lot of nervous energy.

Finally...it looks like the IRS received around 150 million tax returns last year. And that still leaves a lot they did not receive. Go figure how many contained an error , deliberate or accidental. I would guess millions of them. Yours, and the levels of money you are talking about, are totally insignificant.
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