simbacat

Well if you want to see it like that thats fine. I am just really irritated since the quote comes from people who believe and they using this to make some sort of statement. To me it always sounds like God give us the best and to the rest of the world the sh*t.

Franklin

Yep, looks like there is enough dirty linen to through around at every government. Whereas the current US administration has issues and questions about what it is doing, the same could be said about every other government, especially back at Westminister, London. No one is innocent or clean.

But those that want to throw up dirt at the US government should not object the same exposure applied to their own government. The exchange and debate should, imho, be two-way and not all one-way traffic. After all, the current US administration is in its mind fighting to defend America (and they might add, the rest of the free world) in a post-911 environment. Yeah, they are not perfect, yeah, they will make mistakes, yeah they will team up with the wrong people (and hopefully try to correct later). It's not a perfect world, it is not a perfect US government, but that is what elections are for, to throw out an administration come election time. Voters will get that opportunity later this year. Role on democracy (albeit not perfect democracy).

Patrick

You do realise terror is not actually an enemy but a weapon. Saying your at war with Terror is like saying your at war with Sarcasm!

The only terrorist there are at the moment are the american news channels, the way they report things is the only thing that terrorises me, that and GWB thinks you can fight Terror!

Patrick

Franklin

No, I have never supported any version of the IRA. More broadly, I have never supported any terrorist outfit at any time, past, present, never ever. If you keep insisting that I am "fenian filth" I will seek to protect my reputation. It will not be for me to prove that I am not as you say "fenian filth" but for you to prove that I am. Through appropriate legal means I will sue you for substantial damages. Are you going to retract your libel? If you do, I will forget about it.

Yes, I do support a united Ireland for Ireland, but I do not support any violent any terror outfit that seeks the same by violent means or through intimidation of any kind. The Irish government supports the same, like many other law abiding citizens who lawfully hold the same political view.

If you do not completely withdraw your explicit libel you will give me no choice but to seek legal redress. I will probably begin by filing a federal complaint and a subpoena of this site to discover your biographical information.

I have big tuition loans to pay back, if you want to pay them for me, so be it. Retract or face a law suit. I am a lawyer, so it is not exactly skin off my nose to write a complaint up. I really rather not sue you, I really don’t want your money, but if you don’t retract you don’t give me a choice in the matter.

Franklin

No, I have never supported any version of the IRA. More broadly, I have never supported any terrorist outfit at any time, past, present, never ever. If you keep insisting that I am "fenian filth" I will seek to protect my reputation. It will not be for me to prove that I am not as you say "fenian filth" but for you to prove that I am. Through appropriate legal means I will sue you for substantial damages. Are you going to retract your libel? If you do, I will forget about it.

Yes, I do support a united Ireland for Ireland, but I do not support any violent any terror outfit that seeks the same by violent means or through intimidation of any kind. The Irish government supports the same, like many other law abiding citizens who lawfully hold the same political view.

If you do not completely withdraw your explicit libel you will give me no choice but to seek legal redress. I will probably begin by filing a federal complaint and a subpoena of this site to discover your biographical information.

I have big tuition loans to pay back, if you want to pay them for me, so be it. Retract or face a law suit. I am a lawyer, so it is not exactly skin off my nose to write a complaint up. I really rather not sue you, I really don’t want your money, but if you don’t retract you don’t give me a choice in the matter.

Franklin

errrr, I didn't declare war on terror, I think it was the President of the United States who did that.

Patrick

well we know he's a jackass

sibsie

The first IRA formed in 1866 and was nothing to do with the partitian of Ireland.

That's all I've got to say about that!

Franklin

Being offended does not give you a legal right to libel me; you are a VA resident so I can file in a VA state court. I really don't want you served with a summons/complaint, but unless you completely and unequivocally state in an apology from you that you had no grounds for make such a libelous statement about me you really don't give me much choice in the matter. I advise you to seek legal counsel in this matter as soon as possible. On my part, I will use the legal services of my business partner, an attorney with three years plus of litigation experience.

Franklin

Then I stand corrected - but my understanding is that the Provisional IRA were formed in the 1900s, not in the 1800s.

sibsie

The IRA first formed in 1866. It dissolved as part of the agreement for the Republic to be formed which was the best deal Michael Collins could get at the time. There was a small bombing campaign against England in the late 1930's which ended soon after.

The Prov IRA as we know them now started up again in the 60's. There have however been various freedom fighters and organisations in Eire since well before the 1800s with the IRA being just one of them. The original IRA would be ashamed of the current IRA.

Franklin

I don't doubt it (re: "original IRA would be ashamed of the current IRA.") I seemed to recall a documentary (or watching a part thereof) where the original IRA got the rough end of a political deal even if it was the best deal that Michael Collins could get at the time. I also seem to recall (but from memory, so might be wrong) that the leader of the original IRA was illegally killed. Is that true? If so, was it an off-shoot IRA of the original IRA that killed him? It gets a bit convoluted.

The funny thing about this is that when I met Tony Blair in Chicago (the first sitting British PM to actually visit and give a talk in Chicago, Winston Churchill once traveled through Chicago on a train, but he did not get off the train) … when I met Tony Blair (there were lots of people in the room, I don't want to give the impression that it was just me, the acting Chairman and an honary Labour Party member!) and got introduced to him by the acting Chairman of the Chicago contingent of the British Labour Party, outside was a demonstration about Ireland.

Somehow, I think if I was a member of the IRA or linked with the IRA, the British security service would have made sure I was no where near him. I should imagine that they kept tabs on such people, particularly those likely to come into close contact with him (the room – at the top of a hotel on Michigan – was filled with politicians and “important people�, most of whom I never heard of, but I was still a Brit and not really into US politics at the time, the senior partner pointed out a few people but I did not know them, one person I did recognize was Mosley Brawn (might be spelt Braun), she said she was thinking of running for something, I can’t remember if she said it was for the next US President, but she quipped that the senior partner (i.e. the "honary LP supporter/member from a law firm I worked in) should be a campaign manager, he was a strong Democratic supporter which seemed to interest her. *shrugs*

edwords

You want America to be the world's cop? I think that's a notion most people on this board would abhor.
The U.S.'s responsibility is to get the people who are out to get us. The nation can't, and shouldn't, get involved in every conflict in the world.

sibsie

What years are you talking about? It does all get very complicated. I studied Irish history have a very well known ancestor involved in freedom fighting and still get lost in it all.

My grandma had a picture of Michael Collins hanging in the hallway of her house. The boys came round collecting for the cause and asked to buy the pic. She gave them a real earful and said words to the effect of "what would you butchers know of the likes of Michael Collins".

Franklin

There were talks going on between (the original?) IRA and the British government, around 1910 or 1920, in that range I think, might be a few years earlier or later, sorry I remember bits of the documentary I saw.

But if I recall correctly, there were talks, that version of the IRA did not get a good deal and disappeared or got consumed by another version of the IRA. It is very convoluted, so not sure. But I seem to recall that the leader of that version of the IRA got murdered - maybe linked to dissatisfaction with the outcome of the then talks. Yes it is confusing!