Re: my rant
 

Just a question for you Hugh, and I'd be genuinely interested to know the answer. You say they have closed a lot of police stations over there.

Ok, but here in Australia they have closed numerous police stations too over the last decade or so, but they've also OPENED a lot of new ones.

It's simply a case of re-locating police stations to where they're most needed (eg, new and growing suburbs, or areas with higher crime), and it's also a matter of replacing old, outdated stations with much nicer, new ones!

I'm just curious to know if it just might be the same thing happening in the UK, except that maybe the negative, miserable media only choose to make a big song and dance about the closures, and don't bother saying too much about the new openings???

Re: my rant
 

Just out of interest - have you / do you live anywhere better? Yes, the US work ethic is admirable but so many of the faults that you list about the UK exist in the US, and then some. Looks like Australia, NZ etc have also got similar problems. There is a social malaise that is common to all these countries. I've lived in a number of countries over the last decade. In all of these countries (apart from Singapore - but the Western mentality would NEVER accept the price you have to pay in individual freedoms for that kind of society), similar themes arise: corrupt politicians, rising crime, disaffected youth, increasing privativisation, health costs, welfare scroungers. You just have to find the place that suits you the best - and believe me, the UK has a LOT going for it.

Re: my rant
 

Well, not exactly, no!

Re: my rant
 

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:


"looks at latest bill from doctor for daughter's routine immunizations"

Re: my rant
 

In partial answer to my own question about police stations closing / opening, I have to say I was very pleasantly surprised on my very recent visit to the UK.

Sorry I can't recall where in the UK this was, but I did see a brand new police station that was very modern and easily as good as any of the new police stations that have opened in Adelaide in recent years.

I say I was surprised because, to be honest, it was not something I expected to see in England, as I have only previously seen grotty old stations there.

However, this one was new, and very nice, and I'm sure it can't be the only such station in the whole country!

Re: my rant
 

Last time I looked or expored the issue, they were just closing them and opening far fewer. It was complaiend about a lot at the time (began in or around the late 70s' I think) but to no avail.

Anyone under 30 will have no idea what it was like and consider the current state of play to be normal.

Re: my rant
 

Well I'm sure the UK has some great attributes when compared to many other places, but I long ago grew tired of the bureaucracy, petty minded, unambitious mindset. The obsession with boozing (I mean really getting trashed all the time) and lunchtime drinking is very rare in the US.

I worked in the City of London for well over a decade, and did my fair share of long lunches over a pint or three, when I got to US I discovered that it never happens, very very rare for anyone to drink during lunch when at work.

I now think this is very good and just one way that our own heathen behavior is shameful, in reality there is NO way you can give your best at any real job when you have had even one pint in my view, I am glad that I learnt this lesson.

We here in the UK seem to take pride in such characteristics, we need to step back and face reality about this dismal little island with its dull weather.

One thing that I really notice now that I am back, is the very essence of people's character, so many people walk around with this "I dont give a f--k" attitude, scowling, frowning etc, and always posing strutting the girls dressing like hookers on Friday and Saturday evening, so many people have no class, not style just mindless fashion followers, you can keep the place man.

You may not notice it, but get away for a while and you do spot it when you get back here.

If I walk around the street at night every single store has big steel shutters over it, BUT when I was a kid in 60's Liverpool it was not like this, you could see through all the shop windows at night, see the cakes, the TV repair guy's stuff, the chandler shop etc, there was none of this heavy obstructive shuttering.

Young people do NOT know how it has changed.

Imagine my joy when I first began to walk around Philly in 2002 and explore the city center streets in the evening, very few had shutters like we have. And there are (still) so many little nifty stores, a sewing machine repair guy a TV radio repair man, a guitar shop, ballet store, art stores, antique book stores, etc etc all owned and run by individuals. This is how it was when I was a kid in Liverpool, it is very sad that I must leave the UK to see and enjoy a lifestyle that we used to have here but do no more.

Walk around Liverpool at night and man, that is getting scary, small gangs of youths hanging arould looking for trouble, possibly even armed with guns for all I know, the city is overrun at night by violent, agressive turds that have no style, no eductaion, no culture.

In the US kids call me "Sir" I am still amazed at that. If a kid's ball lands garden, they knock on door, and apologize and call you sir etc. Only once in Leek recently have I seen such polite kids, in almost every case they are rude and agressive.

My wife was walking home a few weeks ago along the canal, it was light and two young black guys were walking ahead of her, they periodcially turned to look at her as they all walked.

After a while they stopped and stood either side of where she had to pass through, as she (almost) squeezed past, one said "Hey your OK you dont need to worry just because we're Black".

She flipped, and is never one to hold her words, she said "I dont give a shit what color you are, if two men suddenly stop and make it difficult for me to get past I'm gonna be scared, doesnt matter what color you are".

This is broad daylight in a decent part of Birmingham, they guy shut his trap and was stunned, no doubt he was not expecting a yank accent. But this is not a "black thing" its an English thing, a thug, dumb, brainless thing, I see and hear this stuff all the time.

I just cant take the place serioulsy when it allows criminals to walk around with AK47s while Police carry sticks and the public carry nothing, not my kind of society.

Re: my rant
 

I totally agree with you regarding the drinking. It seems to be less pervasive.

However, as I currently live pretty close to Philly I totally disagree about walking at night in Center City in Philly. Wow!! It's SCARY!! Have you ever been across the Delaware to Camden NJ??? What a place!

I'm moving back to the UK after 11 years away. I'm not moving because I dislike the US - far from it - but because of a great opportunity that has come my way. I'm looking forward to it. I know that there will be plenty that I will miss about the US (including respectful children!) but, on the balance of things, I still think the UK comes out as a good place to live. It's not all doom and gloom, crime and vice. I think British people need to take pride in their country - Americans certainly do and while they have plenty of problems here, it doesn't interfere with their pride in being American. That's something I've learnt here. Even the fact that patriotism is associated with racism and xenophobia in the UK is so sad. There's so much to be proud of about bring British and you don't have to be a member of the BNP to do so!

Re: my rant
 

:confused:

Re: my rant
 

[QUOTE=Barratie;6502486]Well I'm sure the UK has some great attributes when compared to many other places, but I long ago grew tired of the bureaucracy, petty minded, unambitious mindset. The obsession with boozing (I mean really getting trashed all the time) and lunchtime drinking is very rare in the US.

I worked in the City of London for well over a decade, and did my fair share of long lunches over a pint or three, when I got to US I discovered that it never happens, very very rare for anyone to drink during lunch when at work.

I now think this is very good and just one way that our own heathen behavior is shameful, in reality there is NO way you can give your best at any real job when you have had even one pint in my view, I am glad that I learnt this lesson.

We here in the UK seem to take pride in such characteristics, we need to step back and face reality about this dismal little island with its dull weather.

One thing that I really notice now that I am back, is the very essence of people's character, so many people walk around with this "I dont give a f--k" attitude, scowling, frowning etc, and always posing strutting the girls dressing like hookers on Friday and Saturday evening, so many people have no class, not style just mindless fashion followers, you can keep the place man.

You may not notice it, but get away for a while and you do spot it when you get back here.

If I walk around the street at night every single store has big steel shutters over it, BUT when I was a kid in 60's Liverpool it was not like this, you could see through all the shop windows at night, see the cakes, the TV repair guy's stuff, the chandler shop etc, there was none of this heavy obstructive shuttering.

Young people do NOT know how it has changed.

Imagine my joy when I first began to walk around Philly in 2002 and explore the city center streets in the evening, very few had shutters like we have. And there are (still) so many little nifty stores, a sewing machine repair guy a TV radio repair man, a guitar shop, ballet store, art stores, antique book stores, etc etc all owned and run by individuals. This is how it was when I was a kid in Liverpool, it is very sad that I must leave the UK to see and enjoy a lifestyle that we used to have here but do no more.

Walk around Liverpool at night and man, that is getting scary, small gangs of youths hanging arould looking for trouble, possibly even armed with guns for all I know, the city is overrun at night by violent, agressive turds that have no style, no eductaion, no culture.

In the US kids call me "Sir" I am still amazed at that. If a kid's ball lands garden, they knock on door, and apologize and call you sir etc. Only once in Leek recently have I seen such polite kids, in almost every case they are rude and agressive.
My wife was walking home a few weeks ago along the canal, it was light and two young black guys were walking ahead of her, they periodcially turned to look at her as they all walked.

After a while they stopped and stood either side of where she had to pass through, as she (almost) squeezed past, one said "Hey your OK you dont need to worry just because we're Black".

She flipped, and is never one to hold her words, she said "I dont give a shit what color you are, if two men suddenly stop and make it difficult for me to get past I'm gonna be scared, doesnt matter what color you are".

This is broad daylight in a decent part of Birmingham, they guy shut his trap and was stunned, no doubt he was not expecting a yank accent. But this is not a "black thing" its an English thing, a thug, dumb, brainless thing, I see and hear this stuff all the time.

this doesnt make any sense - what did these young guys actually DO that was so bad. it could be that they were stopping to let your wife past and reassuring her there was nothing to be worried about. sounds like she was the more rude and aggressive of them. lets face it, if they really were such "dumb, brainless thugs", I really dont think an american accent would scare them off - they would surely have mugged her or whatever.

i have been to america many times, mainly to boston, and i have really enjoyed my visits. but to try to say that the social problems of the US are non-existent compared to the UK is laughable. shooting up your parents/classmates/workmates is a practically a monthly event FFS. gang violence is prevalent. huge poverty and drugs problems. no free health care so tuff luck if you get sick. the fact is that all countries have their problems and the uk is certainly no worse than the US in that respect

Re: my rant
 

Well Sir I hope you are not dissapointed.

Of cousre I know of Camden in NJ, but this is obvioulsy not center city in Philly. I used to work at 20th and Market and lived near China Town which is around 30 mins walk away.

I walked to/from work every day/night except when it was heavy snow or rain.

I had to walk through center city, sometimes I'd stop at a bar or three on the way home.

Not once in two years did I see anything like I see here all the time. I never saw fighting, I never saw anyone puking in the street, nor did I see people shouting, cheering except after some major game and Philly is busier than Birmingham or even Liverpool I think.

I was never personally hassled or threatened or felt threatened, of course it can get more tense very late and in more remote streets, certain parts of South Street become unsettling later but these are not really "in" center city.

Between 20th Street and Front Street (1st street) along the area bounded by Market Street and say Chestnut Street is the core of center city and I recall very fondly walkiing along Chestnut Street at say 11pm and hearing people chatting with their windows open, sitting on steps, as the insects chirped in the 90 degree summer heat.

Never once did I see loutish behavior, vandalism or anything. Outside these houses and apartments are flower boxes that were never messed up and never had trash placed in them.

I must have walked that whole area a hell of a lot during my two years there, met some superb people (a few great Brits included) and enjoyed some of the best bars and food that can be had.

If you had a bad experience then of course I this must be taken into account, and I did hear of a few stories about muggings, not many but a few. The one I did hear was two guys attacking a welsh barman that I knew, named Geoff who just happened to a be a big player in the amateur Kick Boxing world and was built like a rugby player, they didnt last long.

If I walk around here at night, say Brindley Place or Broad Street it is shameful, louts, nutters shouting, cheering arms in the air, blocking traffic, being sick all over the sidewalk, girls dressed like hookers tottering about in micro-skirts and heels in JANUARY, bouncers and security men.

Someone pulled me up earlier by referring to New Orleans and I have to say that is potentially a very dangerous place, in fact it is the only place (so far) in the US that I have felt really unsafe, trouble is that a great number of UK cities are almost like New Orleans, but in the US such places are pretty unsual.

May I ask, when you were last in the UK?

Hugh

Re: my rant
 

Well I simply cannot give every tiny detail, suffice to say they were deliberately intimidating and not reassuring anyone. I never said or implied that they were considering mugging anyone either that is your interpretation.

H

Re: my rant
 

I've lived out of the UK for 11 years in a number of countries, the last 4 in the US. Thankfully, I've never been mugged or assaulted in any country. But I certainly did not feel safe in Philly. Or Camden. Or Trenton. Or parts of Brooklyn and Queens. And most certainly not in LA and NO. I have spent time in the UK though. I was working in the UK for 2 months in 2006. And I have family and friends there.

My point is that I don't think the UK stands out in terms of the problems facing it. Some of your points are certainly valid. Public drunkeness is much less accepted here in the US, but you know what, I'm working here at a Ivy League Uni. The undergrads here come from some of the most affluent families in the US and they're all pretty smart. Every year, students are hospitalised because they have got so drunk. One kid was in a coma and only recovered because he was young and athletic - but he's caused permanent damage. So if it happens here, it'll happen anywhere.

The US has huge social problems. They're different to those in the UK but to many people they are no less pressing. UK culture may not suit you, you may find the US culture more to your liking. That's fine - there's nothing wrong with that. But in terms of absolute values, I don't think you can judge. It's all relative and it all depends on what you prioritise and the values you hold.

Re: my rant
 

Well I have never denied that the US has major social problems, I point these out often to Americans who are often just as uninformed as people here in the UK are.

I agree 100% with you about the college drinking, my daughter is at MIT right now and she has told me plenty of stories about this as has my wife (who loves the UK incidentally).

Many of my gripes above are not referring to social problems in the UK but to the nature of people's character, like it or not there is a greater prevalance of agression, vandalism, drunkeness, and general disregard for the welfare of others here than in the places I have lived in the US.

My other gripes about quality of service is also not a comment on social problems as such. In the US they value the customer, in the UK they resent the customer. A customer in the US is a way to further something, to progress the business, the cashflow, reputation etc. In the UK the customer is just another burden, someone wo wants something, someone who is going to ask for this or that.

Now of course there are exceptions and I think one of the main reasons the UK is becoming uglier is it is simply a crowded place, always crowds at pubs and bars and when you get crowds service levels always drop.

I visited New Mexico two years ago, and stayed in Santa Fe for a few nights, that one state is 30% larger than the whole of the UK, yet it has a population of 2.5 million v 65.0 million.

H

Re: my rant
 

Have you read Ester Boserup or Julian Simon? Both have very interesting perspectives on why crowded places are actually a good thing!