Aliens crossing the border, Sheriff is a facist, kidnap capital of America, very right-wing, lots of old people...

AAAAGGGGHHHH!!!! WHAT'S THIS WET STUFF FALLING OUT OF THE SKY!!!!

Just an update to say I visited Phoenix this weekend to look at places and here are my thoughts in case they are useful to anyone else.

Old town Scottsdale was a little bit like something out of a spaghetti western, definitely touristy but had an excellent "Coffee Cartel" coffee shop, nice bars and restaurants but didn't appeal to me as I thought it would.

South Scottsdale we looked at the SkySong apartment complex http://www.skysongapts.com/ they were nice, spacious, relatively cheap and great amenities but I felt like once they were at capacity it may become a "bro-haven" with ASU just south in Tempe.

I was advised to look in Arcadia/Biltmore area and saw some great options just off CamelBack Rd, but with another craigslist search we found a place slightly more "ghetto adjacent" 1550 sq ft condo for $1300 on N 37th St.

One gem of a restaurant though was "Solo Trattoria" in the Esplanade off Camelback, awesome family run business, very friendly and entertaining.

Thanks all for your advice

If any of you want to meet up next month let me know!!

That's what I said. That's what nearly everyone says imx. "Oooh, you should visit Scottsdale". And you get there and that's your reaction. Very overhyped. Also incidentally has the highest average age for residents of any municipality in the US. Did you see the driving range? Oooh.

It's nicer north of the 101.

Old Town Scottsdale is a bit different from Downtown Scottsdale, although they are close to each other. 'Old Town' is the ultra-touristy bit with the Saloons (Rusty Spur, etc), horse-drawn carriages, and lots of expensive gift shops. This area is predominantly south of 'Indian School Rd' and east of Scottsdale Rd. Downtown Scottsdale is just a bit further up Scottsdale Road, and across on the other side (west) - everywhere from the Loco Patron restaurant on up across the canal to 'Olive and Ivy' and then into the 'Fashion Square Mall'. There are great restaurants in that section, including Cowboy Ciao, Tapas Papa Frita, Bungalow bar, Wildfish, and several others. I do love 'Grimaldis Pizza', and that is kinda on the verge of 'Old Town', but the rest of it is pure tourist stuff.

I agree things get better as you go north, though once you are past 101 you are talking great residential, but only limited 'social' ... "Market St" in DC Ranch is one such oasis. Actually, a great 'new' area that has blossomed is the 'Scottsdale Quarter', about half-way up Scottsdale Rd between downtown and 101 - opposite the more established (and very nice) Kierland area.

The one big selling point for me on Scottsdale is the 'desert look and feel'; Scottsdale is the only place in the valley that has generally embraced the look and feel of the desert on a fairly consistent level - that is, not just in isolated community developments, but rather, the entire area, including roadway landscaping, medians, etc. (this really applies mainly to the parts north of Shea, and even more so north of 101). And of course you have the best trail systems in the McDowell Sonoran Preserve.

Ok, I've finally read the entire thread and see what's going on. I also got your PM, ned, and replied. Sorry, I've been busy of late ...

I think 'Steve_' has an axe to grind against Phoenix - it's simply not as bad as he makes out.

I work in IT and I was transferred to Phoenix against my better judgment back in 2009 when there weren't too many alternatives (economy tanked). For me, it was a case of 'good news/bad news' - 'good news is, you keep your job, bad news is, you have to go to Phoenix'. So I went down there. Now, I'd lived in the Bay Area for the preceding 25 years and absolutely adored it - loved the weather, food, people, politics, work, everything - couldn't be happier ... so it was a shock.

On the negative side, the politics suck (to me, I'm a liberal), the sheriff is a moron, the governor is an idiot, guns are popular with everyone, illegals are demonized, etc. But - as a white professional making good money, none of this affected my daily existence. My Filipino g/f also had no problems.

I was a manager and had to recruit IT folks. I was appalled at the quality of candidates. I ended up using my old contractor guys from CA for all the 'hard stuff'. Companies seem to want to hire people for peanuts, but then don't understand why they don't perform. This is an area where I REALLY missed being in the bay area, where you have great candidates (who are paid well). (I personally kept my bay area salary, so I was rather lucky in that regard - until I was deemed too expensive ). You'll pay less income tax but it won't offset the lower salaries, in general.

Healthcare is big there, so if you have a healthcare IT background - if you can 'talk the talk' regarding HIPAA, compliance, security, etc - then you may find better jobs.

I searched high and low for the kind of bustling 'downtown' I was used to in the Bay Area, and was very disappointed. In the end, I concluded there were only two viable options - Tempe (Mill Ave) and Downtown Scottsdale. Tempe has some great options (Rula Bula, as mentioned, and I love "Med Fresh" for cheap, decent Mediterranean food). Z-Tejas is good, Gordon Biersch is ok, etc. But overall, it was just too darned 'studenty' for me (I'm an old git - you may like it!). I made peace with Downtown Scottsdale and used to enjoy parking the car and walking around, wining and dining around the 'canal' area. There is supposed to be a very 'active' nightlife scene, but I am past that stage..... But in the end, I started going to 'spot' places, by car, and enjoying them in isolation - like Scottsdale Quarter opposite Kierland on Scottsdale Rd, or the area around 'Houstons' further down Scottsdale Rd.

As others have said, downtown Phoenix is trying to do a bit of a 'revival', and there ARE decent places down there. "First Friday" (of each month) is a big street fair type of deal. But for me it's all ugly vacant lots.

I really don't know what to suggest for a young couple. I fell in love with the outdoors there - fantastic hiking on trail systems that are extremely well maintained, through beautiful desert landscape. I personally LOVED the 'dry heat' and only found it 'hot' in July/August, and even then, the massive storms made it 'fun'. Even in the hot times, it can be gorgeous outside at night, and every restaurant is geared towards outdoor seating. But October through May is absolutely fantastic weather. You will eventually find a good restaurant here, a good bar there, and you'll meet some good people here and there, and I think you'll find a way to enjoy yourself. Traffic can be heavy on the main routes, but I lived 2 miles from my office and never, ever encountered traffic. I guess I have to say, also - my job was absolutely fantastic, paid me extremely well, and kept me engaged and challenged for the time I was there - so I never really had much time on my hands to worry too much about where I was. Plus - I got to fly home once a month to CA as part of my deal.

The job finally ran its course late last year, and since all my 'contacts' are in the bay area, I've pretty much relocated back to CA now, and I'm loving it back here. But - I'm holding on to my condo there and I'm trying to get back once a month simply because I like it there - I can't wait to go hiking on the trails each month, and I can't wait to be sitting outside at 9pm eating dinner.

I wish you the best of luck!

Thanks so much for the information. I did notice the apparent lack of salary for IT jobs. I had hoped that the lower taxes and rent would account for that but it seems not.

San Francisco is actually where myself and my girlfriend want to be, but with her going back to school and working for her family business who will allow flexibility this is the better option.

I think I'll get my motorbike license and spend more time travelling around seeing things. We've already promised each other that once settled we will do mini vacations once month.

TThank you all again for your advice. I'll keep you posted as things develop... Maybe if you're around and wanna meet up for a BBQ and swim in the middle of winter at a million degrees we can haha.

One other suggestion ... long shot ... I never wanted to give up my home in CA, and my g/f wasn't too keen on relocating full-time down to AZ, so what ended up happening was, I spent 3 weeks out of 4 down there, then she'd come down with me every 'other' 3 weeks ... so I got 3 weeks alone in AZ every other month, and spent 5 weeks with her. Since she was working from home, she could work just as well in either location. If you have a good, well-paying job in LA, then is there any way you can work it out that you visit her in AZ while maintaining your base in CA?

While I said the lower taxes don't offset the lower salaries, the lower HOUSING costs are VERY significant. As others have said, you can rent something half-way decent in the cheaper parts of town for $500/mo ... so maintaining two residences isn't beyond the realm of possibility. LA->PHX by car is a relatively easy 6 hour drive (I do the 12 hour SF->PHX ), and of course flights are fast and cheap with a bit of planning. So - she works there, you work in LA, and you each fly/drive to visit each other ... would require some flexibility on the work front on both sides, which could be difficult.

Now, my g/f and I have been together for 18 years so time apart is a good thing ... hopefully you aren't at that stage yet!

AZ is a GREAT place for road trips ... you can drive up to Sedona, Payson, Show Low, etc all through drop-dead gorgeous scenery. I've driven to Santa Fe also, avoiding the freeways. I've also driven up through Monument Valley to Utah ... absolutely wonderful stuff.

Errr.... you've just repeated largely what I said in much greater detail with a much greater level of criticism.

So, I found an IT job working for a small 10 person provider in Tempe. The money is the same as I make in LA but the job seems less flexibile, pros and cons.

The funny thing is, I will be leaving Los Angeles on the 25th, by pure coincidence that's the very same day that 2 years ago I left Oxford to head out here.

Maybe I just have itchy feet.

Welcome in advance to Tempe! I work in downtown Tempe, right on Mill Ave, and it's great!

Rene

Im on S Mill and Wier Ave

Are you sure? Mill Avenue isn't that long of a street, and I just googled it and didn't fine any intersection with a street called "Wier Avenue".

There's an "East Wier Avenue" near 24th Street, in Phoenix....and a "West Wier Avenue" near 15th Avenue, in Phoenix. No "Wier Avenue" in Tempe, though. Oh, and there's another "Wier Avenue" way out in East Mesa!

Rene

My bad! Google maps pulled up two different addresses as they have recently moved offices!! Im an idiot!

Its on Mill - just south of Broadway!

Awesome! You're not far from my workplace at all! You'll love it here!

Rene

We should all meet at Med Fresh ... I was there last Sunday, and may be there this coming week as I'm heading back to the valley for a few days again.

I hope you enjoy the weather - now is (in my opinion) the best possible time. Make sure you sit outside for dinner ...

Oh and congrats on getting the same salary as in LA! That's awesome! For future reference, property taxes are stupid low (compared to CA) so owning a house is much easier.