Bob

That split, definitely, but there's a massive difference in blue collar here compared to many other countries.

White collar, is probably closer, but I'd still say for folks with less 5 years at a company, the split is probably a fair bit.

Apart from medical insurance, the accrued rate of holiday is the other big reason people are far less job mobile over here.

scrubbedexpat091

That's true. Very true. Pay is at times linked to how long you have been with a company as well, so leaving one company, may mean starting over with less pay, less vacation, less medical so you just get stuck in one place even if its not suited to you, and you hate it.

Its especially true in unions, when everything is linked to seniority.

dlake02

OK - point taken. However, the US is still the only country in the western world that doesn't have statutory minimum amounts of paid holiday, doesn't pay and protect your job if you are off sick as a right, doesn't provide paternity leave, doesn't provide healthcare as mandated as a human-right by the UN even after the frankly pathetic attempts by Obama !

The UK comes in close second to much of this, but made huge leaps forward to more European standards of living in the last 10 years-or-so.

Sally Redux

Yes I believe annual leave, maternity and paternity leave have all increased over there since we left.

dlake02

It's the sick leave that I think is particularly bad. Everyone is sick once-in-a-while. To be forced into work or to have stress on you that you may loose your job or pay whilst you're off sick is just barbarian.

BTW, I haven't had a day off sick for 20 years, but who knows ? The state here seems to be happy to perch families on the edge of constant bankruptcy either due to illness, loss of job or something else that could befall any one of us in the blink of an eye.

There but for the grace of whatever-you-believe-in go I....

dlake02

Yes - the UK is still awful in it's "family friendly" provisions - we've got 20 years of Thatcherism to turn back !

But, new fathers automatically get 2 weeks full pay and in some cases up to 26 weeks full pay with protected rights.

Annual Leave is still the lowest in Europe at 5.6 weeks. And sick leave again is up to 28 weeks on SSP with protected rights. Most companies pay at full pay for 4 weeks.

But it is a lot of the other things that have made the biggest differences to families in the last few years - free places at childcare; money to schools to provide kindergartens; the right to request flexible working patterns/reduced hours; time off for carers duties, etc.

The latest proposals include things like free bus travel for under 16s, free hot school meals for all children.

These would all be anathema here ! I have no idea what the 40+% of my salary that goes on tax here actually gets spent on. Cos it certainly isn't the public services.....

Sally Redux

The military and spying.

dlake02

50% of GDP, isn't it ?

Sally Redux

That we know about

SultanOfSwing

40%??

Do you end up with really big returns at tax time? You could probably adjust your witholding to have a bit more in your back pocket on payday, at the sacrifice of a smaller tax return.

Giantaxe

And apparently it's making a big difference in when people choose to have families. In the US, people are delaying much longer because children are likely to interfere much more with one's career. In Europe, the social provisions are such that it is easier to mix family and career.


Medical costs, prisons, the military...

Edit: the military is under 5% of GDP, but almost twice the UK's percentage.

dlake02

Well, frankly, I don't understand the tax system at all !

All I know is that accounting for all the stuff that came out of my salary in the UK and the equivalent in the US, I was paying just under 42% in the UK and just over 40% here.

In other words, this ain't no cheap tax haven....

SultanOfSwing

You may have been in different tax brackets than me then because I think (from memory, it's been over 7 years) I paid about 23% in the UK and I'm currently witholding about 22% here.

How much of what comes out of your salary in the US is for health insurance? That isn't a 'tax' even though it comes out of pre-taxed income. I'm on my wife's insurance so it doesn't come out of mine, only my witholding (income tax, medicare, soc security and that) does.

dlake02

It had a huge impact on us. We took over 18 months off between us when our son was born. Despite my wife being in hospital for 12 weeks, we didn't pay a penny. We both returned to our jobs exactly as they'd been, had a child care tax credit, and because there was such a focus on family friendly policy, we had a huge choice of carers.

Last year, here, we were really struggling personally. I asked if I could cut my hours down for a few months.

I was looked at as if I were some kind of alien. It was then that I realized just how much on your own you are here. The social contract between state and citizen is broken here - the government exists to protect corporations and it's interest, not citizens.

Giantaxe

The effective tax rate I pay on my income (high tech salary, large mortgage, single, no exemptions for dependents) is just over 10% for federal and 5% for state. Throw in 8% or so for SS and Medicare, the former of which will afford me a more generous state pension provision than for the UK). So that's about 25% of my gross income going to taxes on income. Although mortgage interest reduces my liability, I don't think I'd be near 40% even if I had zero interest/property taxes. My marginal tax rate is certainly in that tax range though.