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Killing Kyoto

Killing Kyoto

Old Dec 9th 2005, 3:17 pm
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Thumbs down Killing Kyoto

http://news.independent.co.uk/enviro...icle331768.ece
The ambitious, behind-the-scenes plan was passed to The Independent this week, just as 189 countries are painfully trying to agree the second stage of Kyoto at the UN climate conference in Montreal. It was pitched to companies such as Ford Europe, Lufthansa and the German utility giant RWE...
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Old Dec 9th 2005, 4:09 pm
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Default Re: Killing Kyoto

Originally Posted by Chorlton
http://news.independent.co.uk/enviro...icle331768.ece
The ambitious, behind-the-scenes plan was passed to The Independent this week, just as 189 countries are painfully trying to agree the second stage of Kyoto at the UN climate conference in Montreal. It was pitched to companies such as Ford Europe, Lufthansa and the German utility giant RWE...
That is just outrageous.
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Old Dec 9th 2005, 7:02 pm
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Default Re: Killing Kyoto

That thing is dead in the water anyway and the British press will twist anything to bash the US. Britain cannot even meet the agreed targets. It is no good signing up for it if you cannot then fulfill it.
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Old Dec 9th 2005, 7:24 pm
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Default Re: Killing Kyoto

Am I the only one that thinks this entire treaty is a bunch of bollocks?

Why do they not put pressure on countries in Africa/S.E. Asia/S. and C. America who are the chief polluters, instead of trying to micromanage first world countries who have fairly stringent environmental laws in place?

I think that anyone who has ever been anywhere near some of the major cities in those continents I mentioned, will agree with my point of view.
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Old Dec 9th 2005, 7:25 pm
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Default Re: Killing Kyoto

Originally Posted by izibear
Am I the only one that thinks this entire treaty is a bunch of bollocks?

Why do they not put pressure on countries in Africa/S.E. Asia/S. and C. America who are the chief polluters, instead of trying to micromanage first world countries who have fairly stringent environmental laws in place?

I think that anyone who has ever been anywhere near some of the major cities in those continents I mentioned, will agree with my point of view.
i agree
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Old Dec 9th 2005, 7:27 pm
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Default Re: Killing Kyoto

Originally Posted by izibear
Am I the only one that thinks this entire treaty is a bunch of bollocks?

Why do they not put pressure on countries in Africa/S.E. Asia/S. and C. America who are the chief polluters, instead of trying to micromanage first world countries who have fairly stringent environmental laws in place?

I think that anyone who has ever been anywhere near some of the major cities in those continents I mentioned, will agree with my point of view.

Totally agree!!!
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Old Dec 9th 2005, 7:27 pm
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Default Re: Killing Kyoto

Originally Posted by izibear
Am I the only one that thinks this entire treaty is a bunch of bollocks?.
No

Originally Posted by izibear
Why do they not put pressure on countries in Africa/S.E. Asia/S. and C. America who are the chief polluters, instead of trying to micromanage first world countries who have fairly stringent environmental laws in place?.
Because the western 1st world countries do as they are told (with the exception of France) and the other third world countries do as they please.
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Old Dec 9th 2005, 7:27 pm
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Default Re: Killing Kyoto

Originally Posted by izibear
Am I the only one that thinks this entire treaty is a bunch of bollocks?

Why do they not put pressure on countries in Africa/S.E. Asia/S. and C. America who are the chief polluters, instead of trying to micromanage first world countries who have fairly stringent environmental laws in place?

I think that anyone who has ever been anywhere near some of the major cities in those continents I mentioned, will agree with my point of view.

Maybe they are too poor to do anything about it? I don't know, but it would be nice to be able to lead by example.
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Old Dec 9th 2005, 7:32 pm
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Default Re: Killing Kyoto

Originally Posted by Chorlton
Maybe they are too poor to do anything about it? I don't know, but it would be nice to be able to lead by example.
When i was studying environmental science ( ) at college, their explantion was that the now 'developed' countries had to use these highly polluting methods to become 'developed', so why shouldn't the 'developing' ones have the same opportunities.... not that i think this is really a good answer, but that was what i was taught. They don't like to be dictated to by countries better off than them; although, if it is the case, you can't really blame them.
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Old Dec 9th 2005, 9:59 pm
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Default Re: Killing Kyoto

Originally Posted by izibear
Why do they not put pressure on countries in Africa/S.E. Asia/S. and C. America who are the chief polluters, instead of trying to micromanage first world countries who have fairly stringent environmental laws in place?

I think that anyone who has ever been anywhere near some of the major cities in those continents I mentioned, will agree with my point of view.
Those nations being more and using second hand power stations and the like, can hardly afford to upgrade systems like the developed world, nor have they had the chance to progress...it's like people giving hybrid cars stick for not being that much of an improvement, but they have only been around for 10 years rather than had a 100 odd years of development behind them...
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Old Dec 9th 2005, 10:29 pm
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Default Re: Killing Kyoto

in my mind they have yet to prove that pollution is actually a problem... the world moves in a cycle.. proven... that cycle is on its temperature upturn...doesn't matter WHAT you do it will happen... basics of a cyclic system.
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Old Dec 9th 2005, 10:53 pm
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Default Re: Killing Kyoto

Originally Posted by USBound
in my mind they have yet to prove that pollution is actually a problem... the world moves in a cycle.. proven... that cycle is on its temperature upturn...doesn't matter WHAT you do it will happen... basics of a cyclic system.
Are you saying we should just wait and see whether we're right or not? What if we're wrong? Won't it be too late by then?

I think we should make changes now, for Justin. Justin case we're right, and for every child called Justin who hasn't been born yet.
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Old Dec 9th 2005, 11:13 pm
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Default Re: Killing Kyoto

Originally Posted by dunroving
Are you saying we should just wait and see whether we're right or not? What if we're wrong? Won't it be too late by then?

I think we should make changes now, for Justin. Justin case we're right, and for every child called Justin who hasn't been born yet.


Thank goodness - a voice of reason !

Whatever the fundamental cause of climate change/global warming - even if it is a cyclic event, greenhouse gasses (sp?) can only add fuel to a fire already lit, and speed up global effects.

By reducing emissions now time might be bought - time in which scientific break-throughs might be made in finding solutions, or alternative energy sources.

I'd have no problem if America's adamant refusal to be involved in the Kyoto Treaty/Protocol or whatever it's called only affected America, and only affected THIS generation. Neither is true. It affects the planet and every generation to come.

The responses "What about China"....."What about third world countries - they do more than America to pollute the atmosphere...." are getting a little tired now. I'm sick of hearing them each time I raise my voice in this country.
For goodness sake!!!! America likes to be thought of as a world leader, "Leader of the Free World" (a misnomer if ever I heard one).
Leader my foot - dragging up the rear like a spoiled brat who refuses to leave behind its expensive toys!!!!
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Old Dec 9th 2005, 11:26 pm
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Default Re: Killing Kyoto

you should read "state of fear" by Critchon... very interesting read and whatever people might think of his work... his content has never been so compelling.
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Old Dec 10th 2005, 12:44 am
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Default Re: Killing Kyoto

Originally Posted by USBound
you should read "state of fear" by Critchon... very interesting read and whatever people might think of his work... his content has never been so compelling.

Compelling, perhaps, but FICTION neverthless. Like the TV miniseries "The Triangle" - sheer fiction. Fact is even more compelling.
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