How much is enough – Northeast
Oct 10th 2014, 4:01 pm
#151
BE Site Lead
Joined: Aug 2004
Location: MA, USA
Posts: 92,170
Re: How much is enough – Northeast
<gloomy mode>
The question was rhetorical, but it raises a thought. Living on the edge. I would allow a monthly 'saving' figure, for when something happens. Something will indeed happen, and if living on the edge that may put you the wrong side of things, and facing a potential downward spiral. As others have commented, there's really nothing in the way of social safety nets here. Do consider why this is a good move in terms of the family quality of life.
</gloomy mode>
They don't have sales or income tax, so that simplifies things, but they make up for it on property tax. Still got federal income tax though.
It is a cracking part of the country though and lots of nice things for kids to do.
Just shit being broke over here, especially in the winter.
Oct 10th 2014, 4:13 pm
#152
BE Site Lead
Joined: Aug 2004
Location: MA, USA
Posts: 92,170
Re: How much is enough – Northeast
Though at 14, it's not easy to plan for of course, but it's another thing to keep in mind.
Oct 10th 2014, 4:20 pm
#153
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 41,518
Re: How much is enough – Northeast
Another consideration, with a 14 year old would be uni. If there's any thoughts on studying in the UK, would need 3 years EU residence prior to starting to get home rates, which might not be massively different to international rates these days but the funding model sure is and being able to get a student loan and pay it off after you study and earning money is a lot easier than having to pay it up front in cash.
Though at 14, it's not easy to plan for of course, but it's another thing to keep in mind.
Though at 14, it's not easy to plan for of course, but it's another thing to keep in mind.
Anyway, yes international fees if they come back to UK uni, 4 years min at a range of prices in US.
Oct 10th 2014, 5:14 pm
#154
BE Enthusiast
Joined: Jul 2014
Location: Chicagoland
Posts: 317
Re: How much is enough – Northeast
Following this post with interest. I carried out a similar exercise, allbeit not through this forum.
We are moving to Chicago - not a move instigated by us, so we are in a better bargaining position. They want us, they have to pay. One of the caveats we placed on the move was that we had to be financially and lifestyle better off if we were going to make such a major move.
Not sure how useful or accurate this website is, but this was my starting point Cost Of Living Comparison Between United States And United Kingdom
More useful have been friends already in the US (NYC, though) and conversations with future work colleagues.
We are moving to Chicago - not a move instigated by us, so we are in a better bargaining position. They want us, they have to pay. One of the caveats we placed on the move was that we had to be financially and lifestyle better off if we were going to make such a major move.
Not sure how useful or accurate this website is, but this was my starting point Cost Of Living Comparison Between United States And United Kingdom
More useful have been friends already in the US (NYC, though) and conversations with future work colleagues.
Oct 11th 2014, 12:44 pm
#156
Forum Regular
Joined: Nov 2013
Location: Raunds, Northants.
Posts: 295
Re: How much is enough – Northeast
Not sure how useful or accurate this website is, but this was my starting point Cost Of Living Comparison Between United States And United Kingdom
worth a look OP.
Oct 11th 2014, 1:12 pm
#157
BE Enthusiast
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 572
Re: How much is enough – Northeast
Having lived in ten states, and hired people in most of them, it is probably true for unskilled workers, but not for professionals.
Oct 11th 2014, 9:20 pm
#158
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 22,105
Re: How much is enough – Northeast
IMO almost everything you have on that list is low, sometimes very low. I can't fathom your liters and Kms gas calculation, but with two vehicles I will guarantee you'll be spending more than $100 a month. You end up driving a lot more in the US, you just do, especially with three children. I'd start with a budget of $250 for gas. We spend more than twice that and only have one child.
I am also fairly sure that you'll be spending a lot more on heating than $1,200/yr. We have natural gas, which is much cheaper, and live a lot further south, with shorter, milder winters than the NE and are paying probably about $1,000 for winter heating above and beyond the gas we use to heat our water. I'd budget about $2,000 for heating, and more if it's oil fired.
In the short term, first couple of years, I'd say the insurance will be more than $200/mth for two cars- and be aware that there are "state minimum" policies that provide pathetically low coverage and leave you exposed to be sued if you injure or kill someone.
Your groceries budget also looks low. I am fairly sure we're spending more than $450/mth for groceries and household supplies for a family of three. We aren't having steak dinners three nights a week, and Mrs P buys most of our tinned and packet groceries plus paper goods and cleaning supplies at Walmart, which is as cheap as you can get, so much so that many BE'ers refuse to shop there. For a family of five I'd be surprised if your monthly bills don't come to at least $600, and could easily be more if you don't keep a very close eye on expenditures. In short I'd say $700 is more likely.
I am also fairly sure that you'll be spending a lot more on heating than $1,200/yr. We have natural gas, which is much cheaper, and live a lot further south, with shorter, milder winters than the NE and are paying probably about $1,000 for winter heating above and beyond the gas we use to heat our water. I'd budget about $2,000 for heating, and more if it's oil fired.
In the short term, first couple of years, I'd say the insurance will be more than $200/mth for two cars- and be aware that there are "state minimum" policies that provide pathetically low coverage and leave you exposed to be sued if you injure or kill someone.
Your groceries budget also looks low. I am fairly sure we're spending more than $450/mth for groceries and household supplies for a family of three. We aren't having steak dinners three nights a week, and Mrs P buys most of our tinned and packet groceries plus paper goods and cleaning supplies at Walmart, which is as cheap as you can get, so much so that many BE'ers refuse to shop there. For a family of five I'd be surprised if your monthly bills don't come to at least $600, and could easily be more if you don't keep a very close eye on expenditures. In short I'd say $700 is more likely.
I also agree your food bill for a family of 5 is pretty low. As is your car insurance and cell phone bill. Our cell phone bill for 3 is around $280. When we first arrived here our car insurance bill was about $250 a month for two cars.
Oct 11th 2014, 10:15 pm
#159
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Joined: Nov 2002
Location: Where bad things rarely happen in movies
Posts: 8,933
Oct 11th 2014, 10:30 pm
#160
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Joined: Nov 2002
Location: Where bad things rarely happen in movies
Posts: 8,933
Re: How much is enough – Northeast
OK, I'll have a go at the school thing for you...I have 2 in JH and 1 in Elementary.
- Official School Supplies - average $50 per kid per year
- School supply "extras" - $10ish/k/y
- Yearbook (if you buy them - most seem to) around $50/k/y
- "spirit" shirts - $10-15/k/y
- "specialist" shirts - band, 5th grade, 8th grade etc - $0-15/k/y
- JH Band - we have to buy our instruments - 6th grader is doing trumpet - $500. 8th grader did percussion - $400 in 6th, and recommended home practice instrument in 7th was $
3000. We bought the same on Craigslist for $700, and sold it this year for the same price
- JH Band - despite above, all members get a $100 per year instrument fee to cover the "big stuff" - Euphonium, Tuba, bass drum, trailer to cart it all round in
- JH PE kits - $15/k/y (laundered by school for free!)
- Specialist equipment is extra - fortunately mine are in cheap sports (swimming and soccer) rather than Football....
- Fundraisers - normally a check writing option, we stick in $100 per kid. Then a few weeks later, the fundraisers come home..............
- School Parties - $10/k/y
- EOY teacher gifts - elementary we used to give $25 gift cards to all their teachers - ranged from 3-6 teachers per kid depending on year. JH I only send to the ones that I feel have put in extra - like my eldest's ELA teacher last year - she earned a Caribbean cruise with all the extra effort she put in for him. However life is unfair and she only got a gift card.....
- Field trips - vary from $0-25 /k/y in Elementary, but more in JH - Band did an end of year water park trip that was I think $45
I'm sure there is stuff I've missed - most of it comes at the beginning of the school year, and then its just like a slow continuous drip drip drip of money throughout the year.
- Official School Supplies - average $50 per kid per year
- School supply "extras" - $10ish/k/y
- Yearbook (if you buy them - most seem to) around $50/k/y
- "spirit" shirts - $10-15/k/y
- "specialist" shirts - band, 5th grade, 8th grade etc - $0-15/k/y
- JH Band - we have to buy our instruments - 6th grader is doing trumpet - $500. 8th grader did percussion - $400 in 6th, and recommended home practice instrument in 7th was $
3000. We bought the same on Craigslist for $700, and sold it this year for the same price- JH Band - despite above, all members get a $100 per year instrument fee to cover the "big stuff" - Euphonium, Tuba, bass drum, trailer to cart it all round in
- JH PE kits - $15/k/y (laundered by school for free!)
- Specialist equipment is extra - fortunately mine are in cheap sports (swimming and soccer) rather than Football....
- Fundraisers - normally a check writing option, we stick in $100 per kid. Then a few weeks later, the fundraisers come home..............
- School Parties - $10/k/y
- EOY teacher gifts - elementary we used to give $25 gift cards to all their teachers - ranged from 3-6 teachers per kid depending on year. JH I only send to the ones that I feel have put in extra - like my eldest's ELA teacher last year - she earned a Caribbean cruise with all the extra effort she put in for him. However life is unfair and she only got a gift card.....
- Field trips - vary from $0-25 /k/y in Elementary, but more in JH - Band did an end of year water park trip that was I think $45
I'm sure there is stuff I've missed - most of it comes at the beginning of the school year, and then its just like a slow continuous drip drip drip of money throughout the year.
Oct 11th 2014, 10:33 pm
#161
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Joined: Nov 2002
Location: Where bad things rarely happen in movies
Posts: 8,933
Re: How much is enough – Northeast
One other thing I was thinking about reading this thread, is an obvious but maybe not so obvious one....Its all well and good looking at these things on a "monthly" basis, but bear in mind that a lot of them will "clump" around your arrival time - we got here around Thanksgiving, so our car insurance, life insurance, home insurance, umbrella insurance etc all come at the end of the year, which is also when the Property Tax, HOA fees etc come in, and of course, Christmas. Something like 90% of our fixed costs fall within a 2-3 month window - getting organized is essential!
Oct 12th 2014, 6:09 am
#162
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 41,518
Re: How much is enough – Northeast
HS graduation is very expensive but that might be regional.
Oct 12th 2014, 6:21 am
#163
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Joined: Nov 2002
Location: Where bad things rarely happen in movies
Posts: 8,933
Re: How much is enough – Northeast
Listening to the dance moms of the older girls talk about some of the HS stuff makes my hair curl! One of their sons had spent over $500 on an outfit, a limo rental and a musician just to create a scenario to ask his girlfriend to go to the Prom with him. Then they talk about the 4 figure dresses, more limos, the pre-prom dinner, the post -prom party, the professional photographers, the "mums"* costing several hundred dollars...it all just seems like a massive exercise in conspicuous consumption.
* got a feeling these may just be a southern thing? I don't 'get' them at all...every time I see them I can't help wondering what the girls think about being presented with something that appears very similar to the rosette awarded to the prize heifer at the rodeo....
* got a feeling these may just be a southern thing? I don't 'get' them at all...every time I see them I can't help wondering what the girls think about being presented with something that appears very similar to the rosette awarded to the prize heifer at the rodeo....
Oct 12th 2014, 6:52 am
#164
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 41,518
Re: How much is enough – Northeast
Listening to the dance moms of the older girls talk about some of the HS stuff makes my hair curl! One of their sons had spent over $500 on an outfit, a limo rental and a musician just to create a scenario to ask his girlfriend to go to the Prom with him. Then they talk about the 4 figure dresses, more limos, the pre-prom dinner, the post -prom party, the professional photographers, the "mums"* costing several hundred dollars...it all just seems like a massive exercise in conspicuous consumption.
* got a feeling these may just be a southern thing? I don't 'get' them at all...every time I see them I can't help wondering what the girls think about being presented with something that appears very similar to the rosette awarded to the prize heifer at the rodeo....
* got a feeling these may just be a southern thing? I don't 'get' them at all...every time I see them I can't help wondering what the girls think about being presented with something that appears very similar to the rosette awarded to the prize heifer at the rodeo....
yeah those things are southern. I only know about them from BE.I thought you just asked someone to a dance, stupid me, of course you have to think up a Kanye West-type scenario just for that.
It must be amazing fun but wow the cost of it all, with an after-party as well with hotel stay and all the limos, outfits, flowers, photography and so on it must contribute a considerable chunk to the state economy. The school also organised other graduation trips like a Disneyland all-nighter, beach trip and one to a movie in Hollywood, all costing a fair amount. Our yearbooks were about 100 dollars plus you 'have to' pay for an ad telling your kid how much you love them, this goes from 100 upwards depending on the size - obviously showing more love the more you spend.
Oct 12th 2014, 12:50 pm
#165
Heading for Poppyland
Joined: Jul 2007
Location: North Norfolk and northern New York State
Posts: 14,543
Re: How much is enough – Northeast
Maybe regional, and cultural. My kids didn't cost us one thin dime when they graduated. They were going to school, then they graduated, then it was summer and they didn't go back to school. End of school. Some of their classmates, however .... Bumper stickers, proud grandparents, balloons on the mailbox, parties, extravagant gifts, etc.
OK I remembered, we had to buy the gown and cap, but that was it. Oh and maybe a Carvel ice cream cake, but we buy those at the least provocation!
OK I remembered, we had to buy the gown and cap, but that was it. Oh and maybe a Carvel ice cream cake, but we buy those at the least provocation!