How much is enough – Northeast
 

Hello fellow expats, I’m a DV2014 lottery winner from Belfast already holding immigration visa
I plan to move to States early spring next year.

Now, before I sell half of my stuff for close to nothing, throw away the second half, rent my house
to strangers, let go my beloved 2002 Primera and force my wife and kids to pack up their stuff, I
want to double check what are the financial implication of the move.

I must say “my better half” is the one who asked (read “force me”) to have this clarified at source this time
round (I did some research myself) since children are involved it’s better be prepared than sorry.

I think at this point its not too late we can still step back so I would appreciate any input on monthly cost of living,
possibly based on your own experience, please note, I think about northeast possibly close to coastline as my desired
destination:
- We have family of 5 including myself, wifey, 3 children (14, 7, 5),
- I’m not asking about costs of relocation at all (flights, new car, furniture and so on, …),
- we are going to rent of course,
- I’m looking for monthly costs of running family business, like groceries, insurances (cars, medical),
utilities, taxes if any applicable while renting, including cells, gas, internet, cable fees, extra school costs,
- Please do not include clothes, extra medical bills, perks (cinemas, trips, …), as this can vary from one
person / family to another.

The ultimate goal is to estimate how much we need to see on our paycheck and still have good quality of live
once migrated over the pond.

Cheers,

Re: How much is enough – Northeast
 

Hi, and welcome to BE.

Tbh, I think to get any meaningful answers you're going to need to narrow it down a bit, as the Northeast is such a huge area, and there will be a massive difference between somebody living in Manhattan versus somebody living in rural Maine for instance.

Even if you've just got a state in mind? As again, things like taxes etc will vary hugely by state.

If you can be a bit more specific, then I'm sure the good folks of the forum that live in that area will try and give you some figures to work with.

Good luck.

Re: How much is enough – Northeast
 

Understood, so I think about MA or else NH, ME, however please exclude any major cities (like Boston for example as they have their own rights in terms of BoM) I would be happy to commute to workplace if needs be in order to lower the bills ...

Re: How much is enough – Northeast
 

Whereabouts in the Northeast are you thinking of going? It's generally quite an expensive area, although NYC is more expensive than Boston, which is more expensive then NJ, and so on. With three kids, you're looking at needing a six-figure income to live comfortably, even in most suburban areas. I'll try and break down some of the things you asked about though.

- Groceries could run you anywhere from $100-$300 per week, that's going to Wal-Mart versus going to Whole Foods or Wegmans (Wegmans is awesome, by the way).

- Motor insurance varies depending on where you are, but budget $150-200 a month to cover two cars. Could be less. Any no-claims-bonus you've built up in the UK won't help, unfortunately.

- Health insurance will often come as part of your benefits package with your job, although you'll still be responsible for a portion of the premium, not to mention co-pays for doctor visits and having to pay for any treatments until you hit your deductible (excess). If you don't get insurance with your job, you can get it on the health exchanges (Obamacare) - typically, cover for a family of five will cost you anywhere from $300 - $1500 a month, depending on level of cover. Get the best you can afford - one thing you don't want to do in the US is skimp on health insurance.

- Utilities will depend very much on the size of your house, and what kind of heating you have (electric / mains gas / propane tank / oil). It's hard to generalise on that one. If you rent, you generally won't have to pay property tax or water bills though (which is good, as property taxes in the NE make UK council tax look ridiculously cheap)

- Mobile phones - again, depends what kind of phones you want, but a decent personal plan through Verizon or AT&T will run you $50-70 a month for each phone, and less if you get a family bundle.

- You'll often get cable, home phone and internet bundled though the likes of Comcast, Cablevision, Verizon, etc. You should be able to score a decent bundle for around $120-$150 a month for everything. Just make sure your package has BBC America. :)

- If you send your kids to public schools, there are no fees, but there's always fundraisers, requests for contributions, and the expectation that you'll be available to help out occasionally at the school, usually during events. Schoolbooks are also far more expensive than they need to be.

- Regarding the phones, cable/internet and utilities, since you're new immigrants with no credit history, you'll probably get asked to pay a not-insubstantial deposit before they'll hook you up. You'll probably get this back in 6-12 months though.

Re: How much is enough – Northeast
 

Thanks Rusty great feedback it is. I was counting $150 for groceries and $100 per car insurance so that's quite close with what I'm expecting. Same with cable, phone, internet ...

Again I think about MA, NH, ME, in no particular order to be honest.
What about utilities, heating, air conditioning, electricity, gas / petrol, I'm also interested
in those extra school spendings (books, events, ...).

Anyone?

Re: How much is enough – Northeast
 

Do you know what jobs you will be going for?

I thought at first you were going to run your own business, but I think you were referring to domestic costs rather than a business as such.

What you can earn is going to come before what you can spend :lol:

Re: How much is enough – Northeast
 

MA will be more expensive than NH or ME in general Maine is mostly very rural, and NH has no sales or property taxes. Massachusetts, on the other hand, has lots more public services, public transport, etc.

Aircon will be on your electricity bill (which will literally double over the summer), and, as I said in my previous post, heating is very much down to the kind of heating installed in your house. Mains gas is cheapest, oil is most expensive. In our last house over there (3 bedrooms, ~1600 sq.ft) we had a propane tank and had to fill it about 3 times a year at about $400 a pop.

Petrol is ridiculously cheap compared to what we're used to paying in the UK - last time I was back in the US a few months ago, it was around $3.20 a gallon (equivalent of paying 40p or so per litre in the UK). But you will be driving a whole lot more than you're used to, so it's kinda a false economy, especially when combined with Americans' propensity for cars with big engines. If you're looking at NH or ME, you'll almost certainly need a vehicle with 4WD/AWD, as the winters there can be brutal.

Re: How much is enough – Northeast
 

That is correct, just household spendings - I should have put quotation marks out there probably.
Fair point on the spending so once i know how much I need - I should be able to tell whether I can afford it ;)

Re: How much is enough – Northeast
 

Mrs P and I left NY, the Northern outer suburbs of NYC, in 2002 because despite looking further and further north, we could never find long term housing that fitted comfortably into our budget. There were just the two of us at the time, we were paying $1,600/ for a one bed apartment, but found life intolerable, because there was no prospect of us significantly increasing our income or cutting our expenses. We had one car, didn't eat out anywhere fancy, didn't spend time at shows and clubs in Manhattan, nor travel by air regularly or stay in hotels. At the time I was on high five figures in USD, and that was 12 years ago.

The NE is crazy expensive, and I honestly suggest you cast your net a lot wider, down the length of the East Coast, and westwards at least as far as Texas.

Re: How much is enough – Northeast
 

Got it, so to summarize what we have so far / month:

- $450 groceries
- $200 car insurance - 2 cars
- $120 internet, phone, TV
- $100 propane based heating / air conditioning(avg) 3 bedroom (~200 sq./ft.)
- $___ electricity (avg / month) 5 people - 3 bedroom house
- $___ extra school spendings
- $150 3 cell plans
- $100 (70c / litre / on avg 2500 km on 2 cars per month with avg 8l /100km)
- $___ water (avg / month)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
GT: $1070

if you have any other pointers on empty entries or anything missing, pls. follow up ...

Re: How much is enough – Northeast
 

Got it, although since I like NE very much even if it is expensive I would keep it as my reference point,
and I'm adding rent - lets say $2000 for 3 bedroom - i know it will be highly area specific - however I'm not thinking about Boston or any major city for that matter so maybe I would manage with two grand for the
start - any comments are welcome - of course.


- $ 450 groceries
- $ 200 car insurance - 2 cars
- $ 120 internet, phone, TV
- $ 100 propane based heating / air conditioning(avg) 3 bedroom (~200 sq./ft.)
- $ ___ electricity (avg / month) 5 people - 3 bedroom house
- $ ___ extra school spendings
- $ 150 3 cell plans
- $ 100 (70c / litre / on avg 2500 km on 2 cars per month with avg 8l /100km)
- $ ___ water (avg / month)
- $2000 rent - 3 bedroom (~200 sq./ft.)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
GT: $3070

Re: How much is enough – Northeast
 

Surely your wife will want to know about jobs and where you will be living rather than minutiae of a budget. I would approach it from "We can get jobs paying x amount in y area. Does that translate into an improvement in our living standards?"

Re: How much is enough – Northeast
 

Forgotten medical insurance bill, ouch!

- $ 450 groceries
- $ 200 car insurance - 2 cars
- $ 120 internet, phone, TV
- $ 100 propane based heating / air conditioning(avg) 3 bedroom (~200 sq./ft.)
- $ ___ electricity (avg / month) 5 people - 3 bedroom house
- $ ___ extra school spendings
- $ 150 3 cell plans
- $ 100 (70c / litre / on avg 2500 km on 2 cars per month with avg 8l /100km)
- $ ___ water (avg / month)
- $2000 rent - 3 bedroom (~200 sq./ft.)
- $____ ($300 to $1500) family of 5 depending on work based benefits (if any) and an income
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
GT: $3070

Re: How much is enough – Northeast
 

IMO almost everything you have on that list is low, sometimes very low. I can't fathom your liters and Kms gas calculation, but with two vehicles I will guarantee you'll be spending more than $100 a month. You end up driving a lot more in the US, you just do, especially with three children. I'd start with a budget of $250 for gas. We spend more than twice that and only have one child.

I am also fairly sure that you'll be spending a lot more on heating than $1,200/yr. We have natural gas, which is much cheaper, and live a lot further south, with shorter, milder winters than the NE and are paying probably about $1,000 for winter heating above and beyond the gas we use to heat our water. I'd budget about $2,000 for heating, and more if it's oil fired.

In the short term, first couple of years, I'd say the insurance will be more than $200/mth for two cars- and be aware that there are "state minimum" policies that provide pathetically low coverage and leave you exposed to be sued if you injure or kill someone.

Your groceries budget also looks low. I am fairly sure we're spending more than $450/mth for groceries and household supplies for a family of three. We aren't having steak dinners three nights a week, and Mrs P buys most of our tinned and packet groceries plus paper goods and cleaning supplies at Walmart, which is as cheap as you can get, so much so that many BE'ers refuse to shop there. For a family of five I'd be surprised if your monthly bills don't come to at least $600, and could easily be more if you don't keep a very close eye on expenditures. In short I'd say $700 is more likely.

Re: How much is enough – Northeast
 

200 sq ft is also going to be a bit of a squeeze.

Re: How much is enough – Northeast
 

Shes eyeballing this thread and she couldn't agree more ... however
we want to understand what costs are involved.

Re: How much is enough – Northeast
 

Hmm we are on 100 sq ft at the minute, we should manage on 200 I guess.

Re: How much is enough – Northeast
 

Dan_J - What's your line of work? Maybe we could help recommend somewhere for you to go.

That budget is roughly in line with what you might spend in NJ, if you're happy to be 40-50 miles from the NYC area. You might also get by in MA if you're not in the Boston suburbs, maybe out towards Worcester.

And yep, never underestimate the amount of driving you'll do in the US. Most of the suburban US is not walkable, most of the time you'll have to drive just to get to the local shops. Also, expect no more than 20-25mpg (9.5-11l/100km) from a family-sized vehicle over there, and you'll probably want two cars if both you and your missus actually want to get around. :D

Re: How much is enough – Northeast
 

You're missing a zero, I believe, or quoting m², which amounts to the same thing. My tiny two bed terraced house in London was 750sqft. My mother's four bed semi in the UK is about 1,200 sqft.

Re: How much is enough – Northeast
 

Fair points Mr. P., per your pointers umbrella insurance was added (i was thinking about it anyway), I topped up car ins., heating
and groceries as well.

- $ 600 groceries
- $ 300 car insurance - 2 cars
- $ 20 Umbrella Insurance
- $ 120 internet, phone, TV
- $ 200 propane based heating / air conditioning(avg) 3 bedroom (~2000 sq./ft.) + 100 (avg / month oil based)
- $ ___ electricity (avg / month) 5 people - 3 bedroom house
- $ ___ extra school spendings
- $ 150 3 cell plans
- $ 250 (70c / litre / on avg 6250 km on 2 cars per month with avg 8l / 100km)
- $ ___ water (avg / month)
- $2000 rent - 3 bedroom (~200 sq./ft.)
- $____ ($300 to $1500) family of 5 depending on work based benefits (if any) and an income
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
GT: $3640

Now we are close to $50K (net dollars) on basic monthly spendings w/o even including medical bills at all.
This is going to be interesting ....

Re: How much is enough – Northeast
 

Right, I'm on almost 90 sq m. so it would be close to 1000 sq. ft.

Re: How much is enough – Northeast
 

If you're looking at New England, and rent a house, you'll probably be on oil heat, which will run you about $6-800 per month from November-March.

Re: How much is enough – Northeast
 

See my earlier post, #9, above. :unsure:

And you have elected to keep entertainment, and clothing costs out of your budget. :confused: Also, are you ever planning to return to visit "the folks back home"? Even the shorter flight from Boston is going to run you a minimum of $800/seat, and quite possibly $1,000 or more during the summer and Christmas peak seasons.

Is Mrs J going to be working? If so, might I bring up the costs of "after school care", and "summer camp" costs? :scaredhair:

Re: How much is enough – Northeast
 

Ok, i'm updating our virtual fuel allowance, 10l / 100km should get us through close to 3.5K km
shared by two cars, that should suffice, i hope :fingerscrossed:

- $ 600 groceries
- $ 300 car insurance - 2 cars
- $ 20 Umbrella Insurance
- $ 120 internet, phone, TV
- $ 200 propane based heating / air conditioning(avg) 3 bedroom (~2000 sq./ft.) + 100 (avg / month oil based)
- $ ___ electricity (avg / month) 5 people - 3 bedroom house
- $ ___ extra school spendings
- $ 150 3 cell plans
- $ 250 (70c / litre / on avg 3050 km shared by 2 cars per month with avg 10l / 100km)
- $ ___ water (avg / month)
- $2000 rent - 3 bedroom (~200 sq./ft.)
- $____ ($300 to $1500) family of 5 depending on work based benefits (if any) and an income
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
GT: $3640

Re: How much is enough – Northeast
 

just adding your comment at this point I have to come to terms with it :(


- $ 600 groceries
- $ 300 car insurance - 2 cars
- $ 20 Umbrella Insurance
- $ 120 internet, phone, TV
- $ 200 propane based heating / air conditioning(avg) 3 bedroom (~2000 sq./ft.) + 100 (avg / month oil based)
{Oil NE - about $600-800 per month from November-March}
- $ ___ electricity (avg / month) 5 people - 3 bedroom house
- $ ___ extra school spendings
- $ 150 3 cell plans
- $ 250 (70c / litre / on avg 3050 km shared by 2 cars per month with avg 10l / 100km)
- $ ___ water (avg / month)
- $2000 rent - 3 bedroom (~200 sq./ft.)
- $____ ($300 to $1500) family of 5 depending on work based benefits (if any) and an income
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
GT: $3640

Re: How much is enough – Northeast
 

As you haven't addressed queries with regard to employment, perhaps you already have something lined up. If not, something to consider adding to your expenses is a period of time with nothing coming in while you look for work -- a position a number of new immigrants on this forum have found themselves in. Also, initially you will probably find yourself paying out a lot in deposits for services like electricity as you will have no credit record over here. In the northeast, also think in terms of snow ploughing costs in the winter, which can add up alarmingly some years.

Re: How much is enough – Northeast
 

Pretty much all of the Northeast gets absolutely horrible winters - days on end of sub-zero temperatures, ice storms, snow measured in feet, not inches, frequent power cuts and so on. It'll be a bit of a wakeup call. Before I moved there, I thought all the big 4WD pickups and SUVs were just conspicuous consumption, then I saw my first NJ winter and realised they actually need them to get anywhere!

The closer you are to a decent-sized town the more likely it'll be that there'll be people salting and ploughing the roads on a regular basis during winter, so bear that in mind. Otherwise it's entirely possible you could be housebound for much of the time during the winter.

Re: How much is enough – Northeast
 

I'm aware of those I'm not looking at them at this point, though, I want to asses
an absolute / "average" minimum I need to deliver for monthly.

Re: How much is enough – Northeast
 

The bottom one is medical? That's very hard to budget for without knowing what benefits you can get with your job. On top of the premiums you have to ay a 'copay' for prescriptions and doctor visits, and may have a deductible (excess).

School, well we were in LA but there were quite a few extras. All writing materials, notebooks etc. PE kit. They are big on sport which can get quite expensive if any of your children get on a team. Your kids will want to do some after-school clubs. The schools also have a lot of fundraisers which it's hard to get out of. Don't forget all the birthday parties.I don't know what figure to put on it.

Re: How much is enough – Northeast
 

Can you give any clue as to type of work? Would it include medical benefits, for instance?

Re: How much is enough – Northeast
 

Some parts of the NE are more affordable than others. "South County", Rhode Island, where my wife is from, is relatively affordable, hugely so compared to Westchester County, NY where we live. We'd move there in an instant if we could find good jobs there, but RI's economy is still in the basket, with one of the highest unemployment rates in the country.

It's definitely a case of research, research, research - City-Data.com is good for the nitty-gritty.

Re: How much is enough – Northeast
 

I'd increase your grocery bill - with just 2 of us in cheap Michigan it's usually $150 a week and you're a family of 5. Don't forget your 'groceries' will not just be food but all the other stuff - toilet paper, dish cleaner, laundry detergent etc etc
You have 3 kids, they will be growing - so factor in a clothing allowance as well

Re: How much is enough – Northeast
 

I would say 2-350 a week, we're a family of 5, and most of the grocery shopping is from Walmart, Market Basket and Stop n shop. The US is cheap for somethings and ridiculously expensive for others !

Re: How much is enough – Northeast
 

I'm in iT, I already have been offered position at Dover,NH based company, albeit good at first it might be just an average
if you consider with how much of the pay check you will be left at the end of the month. The aim of this exercise is to
asses the damage :D.

Re: How much is enough – Northeast
 

This is definitely true. And if you choose to live in a town, within walking distance of workplace and at least some shopping, it can dramatically reduce your annual car mileage - and possibly reduce the need for a large 4 wheel drive vehicle. I know folks who live in town, so are able to only run one car since work and school are walkable.

We spend $6,000 per annum for oil heating. And we never have the thermostat above 68 degrees, and also we use a lot of firewood to supplement.

Re: How much is enough – Northeast
 

Just had my wife review these prices
Weekly Specials
and have that compared with her weekly spending at Tesco's she's
quite confident we would not go over $500 per month.

Re: How much is enough – Northeast
 

For a family of 5? Not a chance!

Re: How much is enough – Northeast
 

I hear you, I'm revisiting heating costs and adding couple of pointers:


- $ 500 groceries
- $ 300 car insurance - 2 cars
- $ 20 Umbrella Insurance
- $ 120 internet, phone, TV
- $ 200 propane based heating / air conditioning(avg) 3 bedroom (~2000 sq./ft.)
{oil based NE - might be as much as about $600-800 per month from November-March, overall yearly 6K}
- $ ___ electricity (avg / month) 5 people - 3 bedroom house
- $ ___ extra school spendings (after school activities including sport related)
- $ 150 3 cell plans
- $ 250 (70c / litre / on avg 3050 km shared by 2 cars per month with avg 10l / 100km)
- $ ___ water (avg / month)
- $2000 rent - 3 bedroom (~200 sq./ft.)
- $____ medical insurance - ($300 to $1500) family of 5 depending on work based benefits (if any) and an income
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
GT: $3540

Pointers:
- get a job with medical insurance included,
- rent a house, with efficient / modern heating system preferably propane based,
- rent a house in the within a (even small) city area, it would lower gas costs

Re: How much is enough – Northeast
 

I would not argue with "the Boss" :D.
I guess she will learn the lesson soon ...

Re: How much is enough – Northeast
 

Dunno much about Dover but it's near Portsmouth which is one of my favorite places in New England; really nice little seaport. It also has the advantage of being a way outside the Boston metro area & therefore has cheaper housing (except for Portsmouth which is expensive). Only problem is that the property taxes are really expensive.

How big is your house?