Dan725

I just watched an interesting program on Sunday night on our Florida public broadcast channel which was basically examining the fundamentals of how much of Florida (you could transpose any other transient state too, especially somewhere like AZ) really lacks a sense of community - it was a combination of factors like the mobile population, the developers building model, everything revolving around cars and driving everywhere, peoples attitudes, etc. Very well put together program, and made a lot of sense to me, hailing from rural life in the UK followed by a close-knit Forces community.

I can certainly see where the OP is coming from - I think an idea to try to break out of the funk would be to try to somehow get involved with other people as Lapin Windstar suggests - if not through a job, through finding hobbies and activities that you and your kids can do, to interact with other people, etc - adapt to the environment. As the program the other night was saying, however, these kind of "engineered" activities (which now seem to be the norm in a lot of US society) are still not a replacement for 'proper' communities - but would at least be a good place to start.

usoruk

When we first moved to AZ, we had 2 kids ages 4 and 2, so I did get involved with alot of the local organised venues through local rec. centers, quite expensive though, neighbours, relatives, etc. I remember one Easter hunt looking for eggs 11 am, it was about 90 degrees f. I got heat exhaustion! Then we had 2 more little ones, thats where the reality set in. I just could not manage to do all that I wanted, for me once march/April sets in I am a bat!! So I began to reduce the amount of time I spent outside. Remember, the garage is hot, the car is hot, by the time I would get to the location, the car may have cooled down abit!! Once we got out it was hot etc!! I did not feel this in NJ with 2 of the little ones, weather never, ever stopped me from anything. Even in the snow and rain we would be out and about. Just like back in the UK as kids then as adults, I did not think twice about the cold or snow or even the warm summers, just got on with it. But here, its a different kettle of fish altogether. I am just dragging as the temps soar. And it is not fair to the kids to be cooped up indoor in the fake air all the time. I agree AZ is good for "adults". But I don't even see adults out and about, even they are indoors. So why do they like it here. If the weather is so nice then there should be people everywhere, not just running away up north too flagstaff/prescott. Sorry, this place has done my head in!! As I write I feel the heat radiating off the walls and windows and I am sweaty!!
But thanx for all your wonderful support.

kins

You said your kids were US born right? It sounds like you're comparing life in the UK with no children to live in the US with four small children.

I've done life in both with three small children. I actually find it in many ways easier in the US. In the UK I had to park a way away from the town centre, walk small children to the various shops, get stressed trying to do the shopping, stop for regular breaks. No clean toilets in which to change nappies. Shops were a nightmare with a buggy. Etc etc.

I can only describe what I've done here (Maine) to settle in with small children. I joined some 'mom groups' eg Mom to Mom of Maine, some local email groups on Yahoo, some local playgroups.

I sent my middle daughter to a co-op nursery, and got to know lots of people that way, then we do playdates at each other's houses.

We go to the Children's Museum, the libraries (they all do story times), children's gymnastics. There is an enormous number of children's activities available through our local community services. The older children are now at school and making friends that way.

They play sports, so for example on Saturday morning we all turn out to watch soccer which is played next to the local park.

In the summer when it's very hot we go to the beach, the pool, the river to swim and play. If it's really hot we don't go till after work, and we take a barbeque or packed dinner with us.

In a way it's the opposite problem here - we have four months of snow and freezing temperatures in the winter. It would be easy to sit home and moan, but instead we bought snowshoes, we went and tried cross country skiing, and as the kids get older we're getting back into downhill skiing.

I know you said you've tried all the typical mum/kid stuff, so maybe none of this would work for you, but to be honest every time I've moved anywhere I've found that you get out what you put in, and sometimes you really have to persevere.

I wouldn't feel in any way bad about putting the children into any daycare you can afford. I like co-op nurseries because they give you a bit of a break without costing the earth. Also our local YMCA has 2-hour daycare included in the price, and that was a lifesaver when I was a SAHM.

I don't really find myself missing the UK but then I remember it clearly - all the shops were deserting the high street, parking and traffic were a nightmare, the cost of housing was ridiculous, etc. Sure there may not be as much history here, but I used to have to sit in traffic for 20 minutes to get anywhere historical in the UK.

If you really can't bear the area (and I have to say, AZ wouldn't be my first choice), is there any way you can move? I would seriously look at the Pacific Northwest - you can fly to the UK direct, and it is much more like the UK.

I don't know if any of that helps, but you asked for coping strategies and that's what has worked for me...

Steerpike

Last night, I got home (Scottsdale) at 7pm, put on some shorts, picked up the girlfriend, and went out for dinner. We sat outside at a great casual dining place, enjoying a lovely breeze in the 85 degree air. 85 degrees in the evening, once the sun has gone down, is absolutely awesome. The outdoor seating was full.

I stepped out of my apartment this morning and it was a beautiful 75 with a cooling breeze. It felt wonderful. I have been working in an air-conditioned office all day. It's now 6:30pm and I'm about to leave; the sun is almost down, and when I stepped outside about 10 minutes ago it was absolutely wonderful again. So I think one thing is, you do need to avoid the direct sun in the summer months (June-Sept) between say 11am and 6pm. Instead, you enjoy the outdoors after 6pm and before noon. Not a bad price to pay for 8 months of fantastic weather (Oct-May).

I live near the 'greenway' that runs from Shea/90th st all the way down to Tempe Lake; it is FULL of joggers, bikers, walkers, etc enjoying the 10+ miles of footpaths. Last Saturday I went to the 'Lost Dog Trail' in North East Scottsdale (near 124th St and Via Linda). At 8am the parking lots were FULL and the trail was packed with people enjoying the lovely terrain.

It does seem you are susceptible to heat, if it's bothering you even now (I'm just now starting to feel comfortably WARM!), and thus, Colorado, or the West Coast, are definitely better options. You really need to enjoy the dry warmth to enjoy AZ. I feel like I've finally found a climate I can enjoy after 50+ years!

Good Luck!

usoruk

Thankyou for your understanding, advice and encouragement. You are all right about the difficulties of readjusting back "home". I think I will be a foreigner in my own country. I suppose I did not look at the congestion issues of bringing up a family in such a small, overcrowded country. True, parking miles away from anywhere and then shlupping the kids around would be abit of a nightmare. I have begun to see the UK thorugh the eyes of a tourist not as a family living there and I need to be realistic.
I do like the after 6 o'clock hours here-thats when I try to get my bits done. We did visit Scottsdale a couple of times in the evening and it was nice, actually found some cobbled streets! in Old Scottsdale. The kids had not seen outdoor hustle and bustle in a very long time, so they were mesmerised. I do wish schooling was after 6 too! It is tough on the kids dragging in the heat, PE/recess on 90 degree + days always gets me mad and schools here do not even have a change into PE kits policy. Sunscreen in the morning is not enough for the whole day and the kids are not interested in applying it themselves, teachers won't either. Hats and sunglasses are not allowed. AZ has the 2nd highest rates of skin cancer after Australia , yet it is mandatory for kids to wear hats whilst in the sun at school in Australia. I know I am really looking at things deeply, but unfortunately these things do bother me as a mum. Since moving here our skin, mainly older kids, look awful, like prunes-I have resorted (sp?) to applying olive oils on our skin to try to combat the dry air and dehydrated look! By the way, I did not know Maine had hot summers. Is the whole of America under the Ozone hole or something! We have done the soccer thing in the morning and it is stifling at 10 am in middle of summer - I do feel bad that because teh heat I don't get the kids involved in outdoor activities, even swimming lessons are done at night!
I do give hubby a hard time about all this. Our house is on short sale, we have people interested but because the banks are taking so long, the prospective buyers are getting fed up and backing out each time. So hubby said today out of frustration with me, why don't we just foreclose and move to New Hampshire!! Because he feels I'll only be happy in the east coast and to quicken things up. So I am feeling very guilty right now and confused. Although he feels Colorado will be too sunny for me, he is prepared to make another trip up there to check it out again. So I will research a few places there, Washington park, Louisville, Bloomfield etc, Boulder looks nice but is pricey. I should compromise I know. I think the winters will be better than east coast and he will get the sun he likes and the humidity is not too good for him. I hope it is not like constant heat from march to November. He does have some family there. The north west sounds appealing, but we have no family there and he does want that, also I know they get earthquakes!! Yes I know, getting overley anxious.
So perhaps in the morning I will tell hubby to wait till the house gets sold, get a rental (in a green looking neighbourhood, I will need that for my sanity!) for awhile til we make up our mind and are in agreement as a couple. Also it will give us some time to save. I have to realise we may be here for another year, but I will try to keep my sanity intact by making adjustments that you have all so kindly suggested and also have to sort my mindset out too. I am doing a lot of self talk - talking to and convincing myself that England is no longer my home (sniffle, sniffle, tear!) Sorry this post is long, but it has helped to get alot off my mind. Thankyou.

Englishtart

I sympathize with you sweety, there is nothing worse than being unhappy and not knowing how to change that. It's not easy living anywhere if you are stuck at home with kids every day and don't have family or close friends around you, even the hubby can't always help.

There have been a lot of helpful suggestions in the thread, regarding getting out of the house etc. There is a website 'citydata.com' that has forums for all over the US and splits off into specific areas for each State. Check it out and see if there is a forum for your area, make connections with some of the regular posters and get some ideas from them, you may even find other SAHM's in the area and be able to start a coffee club/kids play date kind of thing

As far as moving to another State, that could help, if you can do it. I have lived in CO, nr Denver. The Winters are cold, but usually sunny, the snow can hang around for a long time, but the Summers are not too humid, I hate the humidity and we are moving to Charleston in a couple of weeks, I am dreading the heat/humidity there, but looking forward to living on the Coast for a change! Sounds like your hubby is aware of how you feel, I'm sure it's not easy for him either knowing how unhappy you are. Does he have anyone at work that he likes to hang out with? maybe you could invite his family over for a bbq one weekend and get to know some friendly people.

I hope things start to get easier for you, I have my 'down' times too, I think most of us do, but home is what you make of it to a big extent, you will get out of it what you put in and sometimes you have to be willing to get outside your comfort zone and try something totally different. This forum is a great place where you can be yourself, whinge, moan, rant and don't worry about asking 'silly' questions, there is no such thing!

Good luck sweety

Retseh

I live on Phoenix, and while I love it here, it isn't for everyone, even some of the Americans don't like it - 6 years seems to be about the limit for the "imports" from other parts of the US.

If I read you right, I'm afraid you're just one of those people who find it difficult to adjust to any non-UK culture, there's nothing wrong with that, it just gives you a problem in that you'll struggle to be happy anywhere away from the UK.

Trips up to Greer and Sedona aren't going to fix your long term needs, and visits back to the UK will only make things worse because you won't want to come back.

Moving to somewhere like Oregon may help somewhat, but unless your family want to return, you may be faced with the fact that you're going to have to learn to live with it.

Steerpike

It is very fashionable for everyone in the Phoenix area to 'bash' Scottsdale, even the Phoenix folks on this forum do it. Take it from me, as an outsider coming in with no pre-conceptions - Scottsdale does have its snobs, and its rules and regulations, but - it has the best 'downtown' in the area (the only one, other than Tempe's Mill Ave which is a bit too 'hippie' for me), and has by far the best landscaping and overall 'appearance'. There are mountain trails, bike paths, lots of green areas, etc all over. Yes, you can't hang your washing out, you can't leave crap on your front yard, etc - but the place looks great and has tons of amenities.

Before you move anywhere, you need to get educated on the weather in the US! I happen to be fascinated by weather, and have studied it a bit. Broadly, you can say the entire east coast of the US is hot and humid in the summer. The north end (eg Boston, NY, Maine, etc) is viciously cold in the winter, while the southern end (eg, South Carolina) is mild. Basically, summers suck on the East coast. Same applies, by and large, to the entire country East of the Rockies - hot humid summers and cold winters in the north (think, Chicago, Minneapolis), hot humid summers and mild winters in the south (think, Tennessee, etc).

From everything you are saying, you would love the Pacific Northwest. As Meauxna said, just about all the Brits who move there love it. The humidity is low; the temperatures moderate. The West Coast is entirely different from the East Coast, weather-wise. The northern end (Seattle, Portland) gets a LOT of rain, but never gets too hot (OK, yes, they have the occasional heatwave in the 80s or 90s - a few days a year), and has mild winters. The southern end (LA, San Diego) gets much, much less rain, and has reasonable summers (as long as you stay close to the coast). San Francisco Bay Area has the 'best' weather in my mind, but ... it's the most expensive place to live in the US so I'm guessing that's out of your range for now. You could also consider NEW MEXICO - MUCH cooler than Phoenix, with some high-tech work in the Albuquerque and Santa Fe areas. I LOVE New Mexico.

Colorado is probably your best bet. I think you'll like it.
Earthquakes only occur in CA, by and large; Oregon and Washington are RELATIVELY earthquake free. I've lived in SF Bay Area for 27 years, and experienced dozens of them (including the big one in 89) - they are not something to be scared of (you are more likely to die in an auto accident).
Whereabouts in Phoenix area are you? My opinion of Phoenix is that it is 90% undesirable; yes, there are great bargains but the quality of life in most of it sucks. Try to move into one of the better areas if you can afford it. Generally, North and East are the better directions. I know people who have bought in Queen Creek, or Goodyear, because they can get a massive house for little money, then they suffer because they live in an urban wasteland ...

kins

Hey - it sounds like you're doing your best

I hope things look up soon, whatever decisions you make. If it helps to talk about it then this is a great place to do it. You're definitely not on your own...

meauxna

Exqueeze me?! Not to alarm the OP, but we're in earthquake central here. I'm just doing a story now on preparedness for our neighborhood newsletter thingy (not that this is news for us here). We have an enormous subduction zone right off the coast here that is due to go off any time now (same set up as Indonesia's big quake + tsunami). We're also in a tsunami zone for Alaska and Hawaii quakes, and have had them. The entire downtown of Portland is on a series of faults, also overdue to go pop.
Seattle has quakes frequently and had a significant one about 8 years ago.

But really, earthquakes are easy to deal with. It's the volcanoes we're watching out for! Why just 30 years ago yesterday..




Mt Rainer, hovering over Seattle is overdue, and Mt Hood, leaning over Portland has been rumbling lately too....

*That* will be a mess.

Steerpike

One more thought for you - have you been to Tempe Marketplace (South East), or Desert Ridge (North East), or Glendale's 'Arena' area ("Westgate City Center" I believe)? While Tempe Marketplace is ultra-modern, it does have the 'The District' and, while I find it a bit weird personally, it does try to re-create a 'European' shopping district, with outdoor cafes, small shops, etc. They also have good shade, and misters for the hot days. Overall, quite a decent destination. "The District" has a stage for live performances, and lots of 'water fountain' things for kids. I've been there a few times and the atmosphere is very festive. It isn't what I'm personally looking for, but I had to admit it looked 'perfect' as a family destination. If you go there, you have to find 'The District' at the north-east end; the main 'marketplace' is just a giant parking lot surrounded by 'big box' stores like Target etc. Here's a link to the location. . Here's the Desert Ridge location, if more convenient (though this seems less crowded).

madmusician_uk

My take on Colorado, having been here in Denver for just over a year now, is that you'll have the same problem here as in Arizona.

I hate the summer, its far too hot, and I seem to spend most of the time inside, hiding from the sun. You have to drive everywhere, unless you're lucky enough to live near the light rail, and you're going somewhere thats on the light rail. Which isn't really too many places.

The summer is a bit shorter here, I suppose. Its just starting to get hot now ( in fact today is quite pleasant, but the forecast for friday is 28 C - eughh!). It will be over around October, so it lasts a bit less than half the year. The winters are much nicer, and though it can get really cold, thats fine by me! I'd much rather deal with a foot of snow, than unbearable heat!

Steerpike

According to this website, Boulder CO is on average 23 F cooler than Phoenix, AZ so I think 'same problem' is a bit of an exaggeration!

Having highs in the 80s in summer, with lows in the 50s, is pretty decent by most people's standards!



She wants less sun, not an ice bucket!

HannahGreen

My sister used to live in Boulder and after 5 days or so visiting her, I couldnt stand the constant sun....just too bright and 'glare-y' all the time.... I think I'm well suited to the Seattle area.....

usoruk

We currently live in Surprise, nice community but no community feel, if you know what I mean. We have visited Desert Ridge, Westgate and tempe mill ave, a couple of times. A bit of a drive for us to walk around and look at overly expensive clothes shops, but it does look nice. Mill ave ends too quick with nothingness on either sides. Again I suppose I am looking for a typical high street with all my fave shops where I can get errands done, a bit of clothes shopping, bank, post office, chemist and cafe, give the kids a day out, sounds like the UK to me!! Weekend evenings it's usually, "so what shall we do, oh lets get a muffin at paradise bakery and watch the cars go by on Bell road"! or pick up a dvd from blockbusters! Westgate looks nice from a distance, but once your in there its over pretty quick! I think the only place to really "ramble" is either in the malls or on one of the local "mountains" (which I definately will not do-snake-a-phobic big time-not very scenic for me-lots of cactus and slithery things-hubby and kids went camping one April in the White tanks) Ikea right now in Tempe is one of my fave places-I know it sounds weird-but I think its the European connection and the fact we can browse and eat their! I do miss the Brit. dept. stores for their cafes!
I don't think any place here is going to fulfill that ache I have for the UK, but it will be a matter of setting up somewhere with similiar qualities, ie weather, activities, community feel and begin to heal the mindset and adjust to that place. I hope we can really find a nice/livable place-because we are not going to able to move again-so the decision has to be right the first time and thats why I am in such a quandery. And as I have not travelled much over here, all my research is done on-line and trying to figure where is best (I know nowhere will be perfect) is tough. If I pick a bad place then I may mess it up for the whole of my family.
I have checked out a place in Washington park, colorado-Bradburn village-its supposed to have a good walkability factor to local main streets shops-good for families-but it is not too close to the Rockies-I has anyone heard of it. I have read some say it reminds them of a fake movie set-I can believe that.
Re: colorado. I think I keep suggesting it as a possible relocation for us, its in the middle, got the mountains, got the snow, got some greenery (even if it is fake and as a result of sprinklers)Yes the sun factor really bothers me, heat does too, slithery things do and is it as boring as most "communities" in AZ. Just don't want to end out of the frying pan and into the fire up there! North West sounds great for me-love the clouds, rain, lots of green but rest of family would hate me for moving them there! Again you guys have given me lots to consider-thanx.