Originally Posted by ImHere

And finally, here some other information regarding gun ownership. This time though its from Switzerland....

http://diodon349.com/Attack_on_America/swiss_guns.htm

"In 1939, just before Hitler launched World War II, Switzerland hosted the International Shooting Championships. Swiss president Philipp Etter told the audience, which included representatives from Nazi Germany:

There is probably no other country which, like Switzerland, gives the soldier his weapon to keep in the home.... With this rifle, he is able every hour, if the country calls, to defend his hearth, his home, his family, his birthplace.... The Swiss does not part with his rifle.

Switzerland won the service-rifle team championship. The lesson was not lost on the Nazi observers."

This is still true today. Almost every home in Switzerland has a firearm at home. Many are service rifles required by law to be kept at home and ready. Switzerland has amongst the lowest gun death rates in the world.

Originally Posted by anotherlimey

You're so wrong it's a wonder where to start!

You think you don't live in a police state? Open your eyes.

Originally Posted by ImHere

No Im not wrong. History proves this to be so.

I didnt say I didnt.

Originally Posted by ImHere

I wonder if the Jews in Nazi Germany would have been so easily rounded up and massacred if gun ownership had been commonplace amonsgt them.

Originally Posted by anotherlimey

Yep, one difference though: they are all trained to use them.

Originally Posted by Simon G

Read some of the work by John R lott, Dan B Kates or Gary Kleck.

Don't think that the RKBA is an American idea. First laid down on paper in the UK in the Magna Carta. Included in the British 1689 Declaration and Bill of Rights, which still exists in UK Constitutional Law. See how this compares to the American BoR written almost 100 years later. Self Defense was a legitimate reason to own a firearm in the UK until 1956. The first firearms laws introduced in the UK were designed by the ruling classes as they fear a popular/socialist revolution

Sucessive gun laws in the UK have disarmed the people whilst armed crime has gone through the roof.

Have a look at the crime rates of those states that have liberal gun ownership with those where the gun laws are restrictive. Even the anti-gun have the result of "net benefit". The criminal does not knbow who is armed.

Originally Posted by anotherlimey

No. You don't need to disarm a populace, you just need to make them live in fear.

It seems you've already succumbed to that.

Originally Posted by ImHere

So the there is the answer. Dont remove peoples ability to defend themselves, train them how to do it properly.

Of course no goverment in its liberal or socialist mind would want to do that, since then you have armed and trained civilians. How on earth would you control that lot?

Originally Posted by anotherlimey

That's quite right. But the gun crime in the UK is hardly close to US levels.

Originally Posted by ImHere

An estimated 1 Million illegal handguns in Britain in 1996, estimated at 3 million now.

Originally Posted by ImHere

I dont live fear at all.

Originally Posted by anotherlimey

How do Switzerland control them?

Originally Posted by anotherlimey

I'm for guns AND gun control. I kind of surprised nobody asked about my position on guns seeing as how I kind of argue both sides.

I'm all for carry and concealment laws, as long as you aren't a psycho, you can use it safely and you can hit a target at a reasonable distance.

Originally Posted by anotherlimey

Pull the other one. Why would you need a gun then? It's not for making bread.

Originally Posted by ImHere

By making people responsible.



In which case we come from the same position. And since to be elegible for a CCW license you cannot be a convicted felon, must pass local, state and federal checks as well as FBI background checks and must have passed prescribed training, that would make a reasonable reason as to why no CCW license holder has been convicted of a gun related crime to date, as afar as I am aware.

Originally Posted by ImHere

I dont live in fear of having a car crash or live in fear of a fire, I also dont live in fear of catching some horrible diesease yet I wear seatbelts in the car and have fire extinguishers im my house and go to the doctor if I am unwell. There is a difference between living in fear and taking precautions.