Michael

True but if you can't get a top secret clearance, you likely won't be able to get a Q clearance or visa/vesra.

benblaney

This is true. Here's the way that conversation goes, with the Facility Security Officer:

"Have you locked your other passport in a safe where you won't use until after you're done with this job? Promise?"

I know a guy with a TS SCI who only ever travels on his other passport.

JAJ

Off topic, but if they were USC automatically at birth they are "natural born" and hence eligible for President and Vice-President.

Jerseygirl

True...the daughter of friends who are both nat. USCs was refused a career in a US Gov. dept because her parents weren't born USCs.

If your children were born on American soil they are USCs...therefore they could become President of the US.

JAJ

Natural born citizens also include those born outside the USA who are automatically USC.

Jerseygirl

Yes...but in Tim's case I'm assuming both parents are not USCs and that his children were born here.

AdobePinon

You appear to mean 2-209. Which also makes it clear that there better be a damned good reason. This document also does not appear to define how dual nationals are treated, and this document is aimed at DoD-type clearances.

You generalize too much.

benblaney

209...212...whatever. Yes, there had better be a dammed good reason, but there often is. And, yes, this is the DoD, but that's numerically greater than the others, so more likely to be of use to the OP.

No more than some of the purveyors of some of the terrible advice seen in this thread (I'm paraphrasing: "if you have to ask, you won't get one").

But I do work for a top 10 Defense contractor, and have overseen about 10,000 clearances in the last five years, so I speak with some knowledge.

DottedEyes

Thanks for everyone's replies.

The clearance would be required for a DoD position and the requestor is a person with very, very specialized knowledge and skills (not a programmer or coder). Specifically, it would require working for a company who does work for the DoD, not working for the US gov't directly.

On another note... neither of my children were born on US soil, but I am a USC (born and raised in the US, lived in the US for the first 27 years, then moved overseas, now back). But DH is not a USC. So our children are USC because of me... and not that I expect either of them to vie for the Presidency... but out of curiosity - - would they be eligible?

ian-mstm

Since they were USCs at birth, yes.

Ian

AdobePinon

And that is the most important info. For other clearances, you may indeed be asked to give up passports, renounce citizenships, or both, or neither, depending on circumstances. I can't speak to DoD clearances - sounds like benblaney is your guy.

penguinsix

My poor attempt at humor. Sorry.

The point I was trying to make is that for clearance, there needs to be a good reason to get one. For the clearances that I see frequently in this area (Ft. Meade, DC, and the intel or political worlds) it's beyond TS and frequently involves lifestyle polys, hard background interviews and whatnot (btw is a poly now standard for contractors? I see it listed quite a bit). The folks that do get those from other countries, and they are rare, often come from a unique position that gets their foot in the door given a unique set of skills or experience they bring to the table. In the contractor world there might be more leeway (I mean, BAE must certainly have some Brits working for it you would think) but generally I've been led to believe that absent some unique ability, experience or skill beyond that of what is being sought (i.e. say basic computer programmer skills) you're going to have a tough time getting over the citizenship hump.

I think the best description I received, and I'd would really like to hear your input on this given your experience, is to think of getting a clearance as almost like a test score in which good & bad are weighed / countered against each other. Drug use, bad. US citizenship, good. Police / Military background, good. Heavy foreign contact / foreign-based family, bad. Now they aren't all equal, for example using drugs is far worse than having an accent, but in the end there seems to be a 'scale' that is developed to come up with a score that is used to gauge your worthiness for a clearance. Some things, like habitual drug use or major gambling debts are flat out rejection issues from which you can't really counter. It's almost a mathematical formula.

While you're here, maybe you could clear up one other bit: if you are going for a clearance and are sponsored by a company, aren't you basically "on your own" until the clearance is reviewed/cleared, i.e. aren't you basically out of a job until you get the clearance? As some of these can take months to process, have the interviews, etc, this can be quite a financial burden. I've heard that some companies might give you non-classified work to tide you over but wasn't sure if that was the case. Any information on that?

Thanks for you advice on this. Perhaps if you get time you could consider a WIKI article on this because it does get asked every six months or so.

benblaney

I'll try to write something up, sure.

To briefly answer your questions:
1. poly isn't always required, but employers often screen to the highest level they can get away with because it gives them more flexibility later on;

2. few really know the "scoring" mechanism (of course, that's classified), but I will say that you'll see some very surprising things go through;

3. yes, you're on your own until you're cleared for the position but it can be very, very quick (from nothing to interim secret for a fairly uninteresting case is no more than a few days; I've even known people who went from nothing to TS in a few days in cases of extreme urgency) so if the firm can't get it done quickly, go work for someone who can.

In terms of dual-citizenships, the key is which came first. If you were a foreigner who took U.S. citizenship that's okay (but they'll want this ludicrous promise of "renouncing"), but they think that anyone who was a USC first and wants to take any other nationality must have something fundamentally wrong with them and shouldn't be trusted.

AdobePinon

DOE clearances....

1. Polygraph is always an option: before, during, after. Experiences vary. Agents will travel to interview anyone of relevance for as far back in your history as it takes.

2. See benblaney's response. I will add nothing.

3. Typically, unclassified work is given. Processing takes anything from a few weeks to many years. Processing is not directly in the hands of the employer - switching to another DOE employer will not help.

4. Citizenship issues are on a case by case basis. There are clear ways of shooting yourself in the foot. However, I feel it inappropriate for me to comment in more detail.

A typical cost to the employer for the process: $60k. That should tell you something.

penguinsix

I'm glad to hear from others that it seems things are a not necessarily easier but not necessarily as "black and white/yes or no". Since we do hear from a number of folks on this board asking about clearances from time to time perhaps there is some hope for some of them.

Most of the clearances I've been involved in have been not for a specific project or a specific weapon system, but for a general US national security policy, mainly in the political world and sometimes the national security policy bureaucracy. In this realm, it's very rare to even have a foreign national employed (nearly everyone is a US government employee and US citizen) and for some of the positions things such as a foreign-born wife or extensive international family connections would render you highly suspect. Then there is "Yankee White" to use the popular (and maybe false) nickname, which is a pretty extreme level to say the least. I've been interviewed twice for people with positions basically at this level (not me, but former colleague and a high school classmate). Those were pretty extensive questions. The guy who carries the "Football" has to be Yankee White cleared as well.

Thanks again for all the replies.