ian-mstm

I see this as, yet another, fallacious argument. It might be more difficult for a child to commit suicide without a gun handy... but someone who is bent on suicide is going to follow through. I say this as a former high school teacher who lost two students to suicide... both had guns in the home, and both chose to die by hanging.

So... gun in the home = suicide by gun: clearly wrong.

Ian

Steerpike

Were those 'guns in the home' unlocked and loaded? That was a key factor in the article - that many households don't lock up, and don't unload, firearms in the house (which makes sense if you have a gun for 'personal safety'). Plus - I don't think most kids are 'bent on suicide' - I think it is an impulsive state for many (esp. kids) and taking away the opportunity can materially reduce the outcome.

Ray

Funny you say that ... one of my wifes relatives
hanged himself from a tree outside his door so the neighbors could see ... he had two pistols in the house

discoviking

I'm not going to get into whether or not suicides or accidents are more or less likely to happen in a household with a gun or not, we can argue statistics on that until Hell freezes over, and still not reach an agreement.

However, on the question on whether or not a gun offers real protection, my take is rather simple. In my opinion, 3 conditions needs to be met:

1. The operator has to be trained in how to use the gun properly.
2. If the operator points a gun at someone, the operator has to be prepared to fire it.
3. If the operator is prepared to fire, the operator also has to be able and prepared to shoot to kill.

If all 3 conditions are not met and the operator hesitates or fumbles in a threat situation, bad things can happen.

I received extensive firearms training when I was in the military, so for me condition 1 is met. I also feel fairly certain that in a combat situation where you are most likely firing at someone from a distance and operating as a military unit, I would have no problem pulling the trigger.

In a one-on-one home invasion situation or a confrontation on the street, I'm not so sure. So I choose not to keep a gun in my house, I keep a baseball bat around instead. On the street, I just use common sense and stay alert.

I don't really have a problem with anyone who choose to get a gun for protection. I choose to not keep one around, but that does not mean that my choice is the right choice for everyone else. It's a free country, make your own choice. But unless all 3 conditions I outlined above are met, I personally think that a gun for 'protection' really offers nothing but a false sense of security.

That's my 2 cents on the matter.

Octang Frye

Why liberals should love the second amendment:

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/20...cond-Amendment

Steerpike, just to point out the obvious, this article is posted on Daily Kos. These are your people.

Brit3964

We liberals also believe in a living Constitution, not one set in stone forever.

chartreuse

You mean mob rule?

Octang Frye

You are a scary individual, Brit3964.

A living document, eh? You know better than Thomas Jefferson?
By your logic, your free speech rights are actually out of mode.
I said so. I'm going to impose restrictions on them. How do you like that?

Manc

There are lots of pro gun liberals.

Brit3964

No, just that it being relevant to today's society, not some idealist view of a "better" time gone by, ie. 1950's as some on the Right would like.

If I'm scaring you, I must be doing something right

Leslie

Why do you believe the Constitution is set in stone? It can be changed. The criteria simply has never been met with regard to the right to bear arms.

fatbrit

It's effectively changed most times USSC makes a decision. The main exception to this was Bush v. Gore.

Brit3964

Some would like to interpret the Constitution narrowly (read conservatively). Not me. Yes you are right, it has been changed, 27 times in fact.

Leslie

I don't disagree. But that hasn't happened.

Leslie

I think people read the Constitution in an egocentric manner much like we approach everything in life.