Originally Posted by saturn05

As a native Italian, naturalized Canadian and American (currently living in Seattle) and having lived in England and Australia (what an anglophile uh??? ) I would like to chip in with my personal opinion in a wider context than just the healthcare issues.


America overall is an extremely selfish society...me, me and me...ohh and I forgot me....despite all the vaunted charity and philantropic organizations (many of them tax avoiding schemes)

The common mindset is that people are poor because they deserve to be poor...so why do I have to pay for their services???

What "we" consider selfishness, for "them" is healthy individualism

The American dream is to buy bigger cars (the domestic ones are mostly contraptions that self destruct after 3 years or so, just when your lease is up), bigger houses (construction quality in many cases it's just a notch above shoebox status), owning stuff....who dies with the most toys win...

Unfortunately the original "pioneer mentality" has been reinforced over and over by the ordes of desperados that arrived and continue to arrive to make America their homes.....the culture of extreme material accumulation is in the American DNA

Only in America a social reject joke like Ayn Rand could become a "philosopher"...there is even a think-thank dedicated to her.

I personally know people that lost everything (up to the point of pawning their wedding rings) that up to one year ago were flying high with 2 high end Range Rovers in their driveways, the usual by-the-book McMansion, etc..this particular family is the typical recurring common theme, brought down by reckless overspending..still they smile at you with sometimes idiotic optimism nowdays based mostly on nothing.... I will get everything back and then some...


Americans have the weakest safety net in the western world but, despite of this, they spend, spend and spend carelessly...As European I could never figure out this seemingly counterintuitive behaviour....little social protection should encourage savings (China is a good example).

Many middle-class Americans still believe in the "Frontier" myth (hard work and self reliance) and do not realize that the playing field is seriously tilted against them...I hope the wave of increasingly frequent financial scandals will wake them up.....the American economy increasingly run on the fumes of financial speculation

It makes my blood boil when the occasional dimwit tells me...."if we have all those issues why the "entire world" wants to come here??" My usual answer is...."I do not care if a piss poor Indian, Mexican or from whatever other third world country wants to live in the US, I can assure you that not many Europeans (Western), Canadians, Australians want to emigrate in America anymore....

Ironically, couple of years ago I was talking to an acquaintance of mine and he was veemently opposed to public healthcare "I do not want to pay more taxes"....typical "I got mine F*** You, thank you very much" attitude from the security of his over 6 figures Microsoft "some sort of Manager" position (everybody is a "manager" in Corporate America....when so many people draw 6+ figures salaries and are unable to explain to you what they really do you know that a country is in trouble) while sailing along Lake Washington with his 30 ft boat...

Well, I heard that he lost his job 6 months ago and he's still looking...I wonder what he would think of "socialized medicine" if he gets a heart attack and he has to sell his house and boat to pay the bills....

Even many ignorant poor are against a more progressive taxation because in their fantasy world, in the La-La land in their heads they think "I will be rich one day, so I do not want to pay more taxes!!!" (Joe The Plumber docet...)

Sometimes friends in Europe ask me how is life in America and if it is worth moving here....my usual response is "If you have some extraordinary skills heavily in demand then you can really do well and you will receive red carpet treatment, but God forbid you are not so special anymore you can be chewed and be spit out in no time with no mercy.....a smile and an "I'm sorry..now get out of the way".
And definitely is not a place where you want to be an employee....is good for entrepreneurs, again, with a solid plan and something of real value, if you look for work-life balance go elsewhere...You can fly high one day and brutally crash on the groud the next...unless you are a member of the privileged protected class...yes they do have classes in the American society despite whatever they say about the Brits...




One of the myth (or better say Bull****) is that the American capitalist system suffers from less "chronic" and "lower" unemployment rate than "sclerotic" old Europe...A little dislaimer...in America, according to the BLS, if you work one hour a week you are considered employed....I don't know in Britain but in Italy you have to work at least 20 hours a week to be considered employed....talking about lies, damned lies and statistics....


Sorry for the long rant but I'm pissed at the continuous attempt to be sold crap for Swiss chocolate....and America does a wonderful job of selling itself abroad for what is not


Someone did ask me few days ago if quality of life overall is better in USA or Australia (a Canadian looking to escape the harsh winter), I replied to him "There is even a contest???"

Originally Posted by simongb

But then maybe I'm just as selfish because I won't leave my well paid job in the US for an uncertain future in the UK??

Originally Posted by simongb

How can someone in Arkansas who has never left the state, ever really know about the NHS? As a Brit, I am very, very proud of our NHS and would defend it to the end. The arguments I hear from US 'pundits' sound childish and ill informed. Makes my blood boil, really. If I were president, every citizen would have to travel abroad and experience life in other countries, just to see that it's not all fabulous in the USA.

Originally Posted by krizzy

All I can say is 3 times now my dad has had to pay out in the UK to keep my mum alive..20/30 thousand pound a shot is hard to find when you are retired..
I can't moan as yet about US health care...in our house we have people with care from Private and State..so far all has been fine both on care and cost..MA is in a lot of trouble with health care after all the changes..and there is now rationing for legals out of work...if MA is anything to go by.. the US could be in a lot of trouble if to much is changed to fast...
All I know is no health care is free..there are always winners and losers...both the US and the UK systems don't work for all...but running into a new system head long will be a mistake

Originally Posted by krizzy

All I know is no health care is free..there are always winners and losers...both the US and the UK systems don't work for all...but running into a new system head long will be a mistake

Originally Posted by Mallory

In the US you have to have health insurance, and I do. The care that I have received is great. The NHS scares me a little.

Originally Posted by saturn05

An other problem is that in US the incentives are actually to keep people sick or in need of excessive care.

Originally Posted by AmerLisa

Originally Posted by saturn05

Yes, unfortunately it's true...keeping people drugged up...they offer drugs for just about everything, just watch a TV shows and you will see that the vast majority of ads are drug or medical treatment related.

Originally Posted by krizzy

All I can say is 3 times now my dad has had to pay out in the UK to keep my mum alive..20/30 thousand pound a shot is hard to find when you are retired..

Originally Posted by Cape Blue

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/7967851.stm

It looks the UK and EU do not allow direct advertising, whereas the US does and the sales of advertised drugs has risen correspondingly.

Originally Posted by saturn05

I know that...still look at the amount of drugs and medical treatment related ads compared to everything else....and listen to all the conditions they are supposed to take care of....