Brit students on flying the American flag
May 22nd 2007, 2:44 am
#61
Diamond Geezer
Joined: Mar 2004
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 2,488
Re: Brit students on flying the American flag
Great 4 my kids. They get 2 have the choice of livin and workin in europe. Plus I can use my brit ppt to get into the uk easily. Guess I'm not really a brit cit like most on here since we have all decided to leave and emigrate to the usa. It is pretty sczophrenic position to be in havin dual nationality and gradually losing ones attachment to the uk.
May 22nd 2007, 2:52 am
#62
Retired
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 34,649
Re: Brit students on flying the American flag
Apparently you do need a permit from the local council to erect a flagpole in your garden in the UK but you can fly any flag you like except the EU flag 
It seems it's not official or something. And the union flag must be flown the right way up
http://www.culture.gov.uk/flagflying/faqs.htm
It seems it's not official or something. And the union flag must be flown the right way uphttp://www.culture.gov.uk/flagflying/faqs.htm
May 22nd 2007, 3:56 am
#63
Diamond Geezer
Joined: Mar 2004
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 2,488
Re: Brit students on flying the American flag
Okay, this ended up a lot longer than I was expecting. If you don't feel like wading through the whole thing, here's the breakdown. Americans wave the Stars and Stripes as it is one of the only things that binds all Americans together. Brits don't need to wave a flag, as we have been acting as a family unit for the better part of 100 years. So here's the long version.
My take on the issue is this. Unlike Britain, America was founded much more on notions of individualism and personal freedom. In the early years of the Union, people were aligned with their individual home states rather than with America as a nation. The American Dream is to arrive poor and prosper on your own merit, leaving a legacy for your children. During the Civil War, the Federal government had gained much more control over the state governments, and afterwards there was a concerted effort by the Federalists to shift the allegiance of the people from their home states to the nation state of the USA.
In order to do that, you need symbology that people who are living as individual family units can look at and feel part of a greater group: Old Glory, the Bald Eagle, Uncle Sam, Chevy Silverados, etc. You may notice that the further you get from the big cities of the coasts (of course there are exceptions to this, as always) the more symbolic that patriotism becomes; the need to show a group identity becomes stronger due to a more insular local community, rather than the extended community of a larger city. So, the way I see it, Americans look at the Stars and Stripes with pride in the accomplishments of the nation they belong to and for the founding principles which it symbolises. Remember that the Pledge of Allegiance asks us to pledge first to the flag, then the nation itself. The flag has become the USA in the minds of many Americans.
<deep breath!>
In Britain, however, we are far more used to the idea of the British nation being a kind of family unit. Rather than leaving others to pull themselves up by their bootstraps, we would prefer to help those of us in need as a nation. Most of us (excepting those who were born during Thatcher's reign) grew up in an era of nationalised industries, working for the nation as a whole, with a national health service, a free comprehensive school system, grants for those who were otherwise unable to afford to go to University, free school milk, etc. We knew what is was to be British, because we were part of the system, whether you believe that is right or wrong.
In Britain, it's the rapid descent of the empire which created these national programs, in some ways bringing the people closer together as a unit, and as we became more of an extended community, we found we didn't need to cling onto the cultural symbols of the nation as a whole, such as the Union Jack. We don't need to hang the flag outside the door to show our Britishness, because we are inherently living out our Britishness everyday. If this is the case, then it's feasible to say that only those who felt threatened by this new socialist(-ist) society, who believed that Britain was some kind of group of individuals rather than a collective family needed that kind of symbology. Not needing the flag to feel British anymore, we let the NF take it for themselves.
Now it's interesting that in recent years, as the social system is slowly being torn apart from within to a more Americanised value system, and more and more people are feeling threatened by immigration and fear of terrorism, AND Britain is becoming less of a family unit and more divided, with Scotland and Ireland gaining their own parliaments, and national independence parties gaining more and more seats and popularity, that NOW there are calls to 'take back the flag' as it were, to reclaim the symbol that many consider 'stolen', but was, in fact, let go as an unnecessary object.
Of course, I could just be talking out of my arse.
My take on the issue is this. Unlike Britain, America was founded much more on notions of individualism and personal freedom. In the early years of the Union, people were aligned with their individual home states rather than with America as a nation. The American Dream is to arrive poor and prosper on your own merit, leaving a legacy for your children. During the Civil War, the Federal government had gained much more control over the state governments, and afterwards there was a concerted effort by the Federalists to shift the allegiance of the people from their home states to the nation state of the USA.
In order to do that, you need symbology that people who are living as individual family units can look at and feel part of a greater group: Old Glory, the Bald Eagle, Uncle Sam, Chevy Silverados, etc. You may notice that the further you get from the big cities of the coasts (of course there are exceptions to this, as always) the more symbolic that patriotism becomes; the need to show a group identity becomes stronger due to a more insular local community, rather than the extended community of a larger city. So, the way I see it, Americans look at the Stars and Stripes with pride in the accomplishments of the nation they belong to and for the founding principles which it symbolises. Remember that the Pledge of Allegiance asks us to pledge first to the flag, then the nation itself. The flag has become the USA in the minds of many Americans.
<deep breath!>
In Britain, however, we are far more used to the idea of the British nation being a kind of family unit. Rather than leaving others to pull themselves up by their bootstraps, we would prefer to help those of us in need as a nation. Most of us (excepting those who were born during Thatcher's reign) grew up in an era of nationalised industries, working for the nation as a whole, with a national health service, a free comprehensive school system, grants for those who were otherwise unable to afford to go to University, free school milk, etc. We knew what is was to be British, because we were part of the system, whether you believe that is right or wrong.
In Britain, it's the rapid descent of the empire which created these national programs, in some ways bringing the people closer together as a unit, and as we became more of an extended community, we found we didn't need to cling onto the cultural symbols of the nation as a whole, such as the Union Jack. We don't need to hang the flag outside the door to show our Britishness, because we are inherently living out our Britishness everyday. If this is the case, then it's feasible to say that only those who felt threatened by this new socialist(-ist) society, who believed that Britain was some kind of group of individuals rather than a collective family needed that kind of symbology. Not needing the flag to feel British anymore, we let the NF take it for themselves.
Now it's interesting that in recent years, as the social system is slowly being torn apart from within to a more Americanised value system, and more and more people are feeling threatened by immigration and fear of terrorism, AND Britain is becoming less of a family unit and more divided, with Scotland and Ireland gaining their own parliaments, and national independence parties gaining more and more seats and popularity, that NOW there are calls to 'take back the flag' as it were, to reclaim the symbol that many consider 'stolen', but was, in fact, let go as an unnecessary object.
Of course, I could just be talking out of my arse.
May 22nd 2007, 6:23 am
#66
BE Enthusiast
Joined: Aug 2006
Location: Los Angeles Ca
Posts: 375
Re: Brit students on flying the American flag
Okay, this ended up a lot longer than I was expecting. If you don't feel like wading through the whole thing, here's the breakdown. Americans wave the Stars and Stripes as it is one of the only things that binds all Americans together. Brits don't need to wave a flag, as we have been acting as a family unit for the better part of 100 years. So here's the long version.
My take on the issue is this. Unlike Britain, America was founded much more on notions of individualism and personal freedom. In the early years of the Union, people were aligned with their individual home states rather than with America as a nation. The American Dream is to arrive poor and prosper on your own merit, leaving a legacy for your children. During the Civil War, the Federal government had gained much more control over the state governments, and afterwards there was a concerted effort by the Federalists to shift the allegiance of the people from their home states to the nation state of the USA.
In order to do that, you need symbology that people who are living as individual family units can look at and feel part of a greater group: Old Glory, the Bald Eagle, Uncle Sam, Chevy Silverados, etc. You may notice that the further you get from the big cities of the coasts (of course there are exceptions to this, as always) the more symbolic that patriotism becomes; the need to show a group identity becomes stronger due to a more insular local community, rather than the extended community of a larger city. So, the way I see it, Americans look at the Stars and Stripes with pride in the accomplishments of the nation they belong to and for the founding principles which it symbolises. Remember that the Pledge of Allegiance asks us to pledge first to the flag, then the nation itself. The flag has become the USA in the minds of many Americans.
<deep breath!>
In Britain, however, we are far more used to the idea of the British nation being a kind of family unit. Rather than leaving others to pull themselves up by their bootstraps, we would prefer to help those of us in need as a nation. Most of us (excepting those who were born during Thatcher's reign) grew up in an era of nationalised industries, working for the nation as a whole, with a national health service, a free comprehensive school system, grants for those who were otherwise unable to afford to go to University, free school milk, etc. We knew what is was to be British, because we were part of the system, whether you believe that is right or wrong.
In Britain, it's the rapid descent of the empire which created these national programs, in some ways bringing the people closer together as a unit, and as we became more of an extended community, we found we didn't need to cling onto the cultural symbols of the nation as a whole, such as the Union Jack. We don't need to hang the flag outside the door to show our Britishness, because we are inherently living out our Britishness everyday. If this is the case, then it's feasible to say that only those who felt threatened by this new socialist(-ist) society, who believed that Britain was some kind of group of individuals rather than a collective family needed that kind of symbology. Not needing the flag to feel British anymore, we let the NF take it for themselves.
Now it's interesting that in recent years, as the social system is slowly being torn apart from within to a more Americanised value system, and more and more people are feeling threatened by immigration and fear of terrorism, AND Britain is becoming less of a family unit and more divided, with Scotland and Ireland gaining their own parliaments, and national independence parties gaining more and more seats and popularity, that NOW there are calls to 'take back the flag' as it were, to reclaim the symbol that many consider 'stolen', but was, in fact, let go as an unnecessary object.
Of course, I could just be talking out of my arse.
My take on the issue is this. Unlike Britain, America was founded much more on notions of individualism and personal freedom. In the early years of the Union, people were aligned with their individual home states rather than with America as a nation. The American Dream is to arrive poor and prosper on your own merit, leaving a legacy for your children. During the Civil War, the Federal government had gained much more control over the state governments, and afterwards there was a concerted effort by the Federalists to shift the allegiance of the people from their home states to the nation state of the USA.
In order to do that, you need symbology that people who are living as individual family units can look at and feel part of a greater group: Old Glory, the Bald Eagle, Uncle Sam, Chevy Silverados, etc. You may notice that the further you get from the big cities of the coasts (of course there are exceptions to this, as always) the more symbolic that patriotism becomes; the need to show a group identity becomes stronger due to a more insular local community, rather than the extended community of a larger city. So, the way I see it, Americans look at the Stars and Stripes with pride in the accomplishments of the nation they belong to and for the founding principles which it symbolises. Remember that the Pledge of Allegiance asks us to pledge first to the flag, then the nation itself. The flag has become the USA in the minds of many Americans.
<deep breath!>
In Britain, however, we are far more used to the idea of the British nation being a kind of family unit. Rather than leaving others to pull themselves up by their bootstraps, we would prefer to help those of us in need as a nation. Most of us (excepting those who were born during Thatcher's reign) grew up in an era of nationalised industries, working for the nation as a whole, with a national health service, a free comprehensive school system, grants for those who were otherwise unable to afford to go to University, free school milk, etc. We knew what is was to be British, because we were part of the system, whether you believe that is right or wrong.
In Britain, it's the rapid descent of the empire which created these national programs, in some ways bringing the people closer together as a unit, and as we became more of an extended community, we found we didn't need to cling onto the cultural symbols of the nation as a whole, such as the Union Jack. We don't need to hang the flag outside the door to show our Britishness, because we are inherently living out our Britishness everyday. If this is the case, then it's feasible to say that only those who felt threatened by this new socialist(-ist) society, who believed that Britain was some kind of group of individuals rather than a collective family needed that kind of symbology. Not needing the flag to feel British anymore, we let the NF take it for themselves.
Now it's interesting that in recent years, as the social system is slowly being torn apart from within to a more Americanised value system, and more and more people are feeling threatened by immigration and fear of terrorism, AND Britain is becoming less of a family unit and more divided, with Scotland and Ireland gaining their own parliaments, and national independence parties gaining more and more seats and popularity, that NOW there are calls to 'take back the flag' as it were, to reclaim the symbol that many consider 'stolen', but was, in fact, let go as an unnecessary object.
Of course, I could just be talking out of my arse.
