Jmaster911

On a similar subject, does anybody know any good long term rental companies? I'll need a rental car until my new one arrives?

Steerpike

Cars are a bit like religion - we all have our different beliefs, and we all tend to think we are right and everyone else is wrong!

I'm a solid believer in the Acura/Infiniti/Lexus model line, knowing full well they are dressed up versions of Honda/Nissan/Toyota. No different really from Ford / Mercury / Lincoln (all ford), pontiac / chevy / buick / cadillac etc / etc (all GM), Vauxhall / Opel / etc in UK, and now .... ... VW / Audi / Porsche (my last Audi was chock full of VW stamped parts) (and anyone noticed how similar the ultra-expensive Porsche Cayenne is to the VW Tauareg? ). It's a worldwide phenomenon these days. I seem to remember growing up with Austin, Morris, Wolseley, Vanden Plas, etc ... all badge-variants of basic BL models (ha! there's an era of British history I think we'd all like to forget - British Leyland!).

I looked at a $35k Acura, and tried to find an equivalent model (in terms of performance, comfort, etc) and could not find an equivalent in other model lines (other than the infiniti G35), especially when taking reliability and cost of ownership (maintenance) into account.

I then compared the Acura TL to the Accord V6 EX. They both have a 3.2 V6, etc. In the end, I dropped an extra $5k for the TL because the TL had a better sound system, nicer leather, nicer trim, quieter ride. Even though they went to the trouble of rebranding them here, it's no different from any other car manufacturer having a range of trim levels on a given model (have you ever tried to price a BMW? For a given model, you can easily add options totalling tens of thousands of dollars - headlamp washers, heated seats, sports steering wheel, real wood trim ... it's a nightmare trying to find out what you will actually pay!). I fully accept my Acura as a high-end Honda. To me, I couldn't care whether it's branded as Honda or Acura; I wanted a quiet, reliable, well-made car.

I think the Infiniti G35 is the best deal on the market today (in that segment), and was Consumer Report's pick for this category too.

By the way - the reason the big three Japanese mfr's went to the trouble of re-branding their high end cars was because of the 'image' that Japanese cars had 30 years ago in this country. Americans perceived Japanese cars as cheap-but-reliable cars. It was determined that, no matter how much luxury, power, and convenience they crammed into their cars, people would not be willing to pay for a 'luxury' Japanese car. So they embarked on a major marketing campaign to 're-educate' the masses and gain acceptance for luxury Japanese cars.

Poppy girl

They all do long term rentals the big companys like Enterprise, Avis, etc but be prepared very expensive, on a monthly for a compact you will be looking at $600 to $800 a month and the rest.

Dan725

I've always found it strange that in the US, the Honda Accord is quite a bit different to the Acura TL - wheras in Europe and Japan, the Accord is the TL - its just still called the Accord.

Hence the truth in the second part of your statement. I see that Wikipedia says Nissan is supposed to be releasing Infiniti as a brand in the UK in 2008: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infiniti - will be interesting to see how it goes. 10 years ago, I think they'd have been laughed out of the country. Now, with consumerism attitudes more aligned with the US, I'm not so sure, although I do think that they will still have a harder time of it than in the US.

Steerpike

Not wanting to turn this into a car discussion forum, but in the interest of accuracy, I believe the European "Honda Accord" is the US "Acura TSX" (not Acura TL). Check out this section of the accord page on wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honda_A...2.80.932007.29

Specific bits of interest: "The seventh generation of the Accord was launched in 2002 (2003 model year in North America), and essentially consists of two separate models. The European and JDM Accords were integrated on the previous Accord's chassis, but with a new body. No longer made in Swindon, those Accords are all made in Japan ... This model is also exported to North America, where it is sold as the Acura TSX."

I believe this to be true, especially based on the pictures shown. The TSX is the 'next model down' from the TL in the US, sold only as a 4 cylinder.

The Acura TL is very similar to the US Accord, and per this wikipedia article is based on it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acura_TL#2004_.283G_TL.29 . Having tested both, I can pretty much confirm that!

So -
UK/Japan Honda Accord = US Acura TSX
US Honda Accord <is the basis for> US Acura TL

I always got the sense in the UK that Japanese cars were not well liked, much more so than over here (unless you live in Michigan!). I started out with a Datsun 120Y in 1980 which I bought off a friend for 75 pounds, and it was rock solid for 2 years, while all my friends had breaking down vauxhalls and what-not. That experience, coupled with my incredible success with Accords here, has locked me into the Japanese camp for life. I test drove several BMWs this time before going with my 4th honda/acura, but the BMWs just did not appeal (especially the 5 series which scores 100% on the ugliness factor!). A week's rental of the Audi Quattro caused me to despise the interior layout (though I hear that 'one knob controls everything' approach is seeping into all cars eventually). So while I started out with the Japanese because of cost and reliability, I now believe they are the best cars out there. Ironically, my biggest gripe about my new TL is that it is too darn firm - it's taking the BMW 3 series on head-to-head and has gone all out for horsepower and stiffness along the way. I would give up some performance for a bit more smoothness, but every car in that segment is going that way at the moment.

I think the success of the Japanese cars in the areas of performance and luxury are a good thing for everyone, whether you like them or not. BMW and MB were for a long time producing over-priced and unreliable cars. In this country at least, they are getting one hell of a run for their money now from Lexus (especially) and Infiniti/Acura. BMW/MB quality is finally on the way up again, and they are offering much better maintenance deals. After drooling over BMWs for 30 years, I now find the MBs more attractive. Whoever designed this last batch of BMWs should be strung up!

RoadWarriorFromLP

15,000 miles per year is not atypical for Americans; sometimes more. If you live in the suburbs and work many miles away, 20,000 miles per year would not be unheard of.

Leasing rarely makes sense, but there are a couple of exceptions:

-You are self-employed; therefore, the costs are tax deductible

-You are driving a vehicle with a heavily subsidized lease deal. For example, BMW 3-series are often moved with substantial lease support, so the cost of leasing may ultimately be lower than buying, particularly if you don't intend to own the car beyond the warranty period.

Of course, leasing doesn't make any sense at all if you exceed the mileage limit, as the penalty for doing so is extreme.

A lot of buyers don't understand that a lease is the equivalent to renting the car at a cost based upon its depreciation charged at a given interest rate. So what counts is having as little depreciation as possible (the difference between the implied purchase price of the vehicle and the projected residual value) and as low of an interest rate as possible (referred to in leasing jargon as "money factor.") Low depreciation + low money factor could equal a good deal.

These are all very different cars. Aside from having four doors, they have very little in common. It would help to know what your priorities are, including whether you frequently intend to carry adults in the back seat, whether you intend to keep it for awhile.

As far as the Audis go, a new A4 will be coming out in the US next autumn. It has already been released in Germany, and is getting very positive reviews by the motoring press.

The US-model Honda Accord and Acura TL are unique to North America. The US Accord is much larger than is the European Accord, and shares very little with it but for a name. A new Accord was just released a few weeks ago for 2008, and it is much larger than the last. The TL is built on the platform of the recently retired version of the pre-2008 US Accord platform, so they have very much in common in terms of road feel, etc. The Acura TSX is a 2.4 liter version of the Euro-market Accord.

The Dodges don't tend to be well regarded, and reliability is questionable. You can buy them cheaply, but they will lose their value quickly. If it's your money, I'd hesitate about buying one of these.

The Taurus is a big car, a land yacht by European standards. If you want a smaller Ford sedan, you can choose a Fusion, which despite the brand is not similar to a Mondeo. The closest thing you'll get to the Mondeo in the US is a Mazda 6, which is also due for a new model coming soon.

Steerpike

The infiniti G35 would be my pick from your list, hands down. The only other contender would be the Audi's, but if you research resale value, the Audis plummet after a few years due to predicted reliability/maintenance issues. The best place to research this would be http://www.edmunds.com .

The December issue of Consumer Reports (a respected review mag that does not accept advertizing) has this take on predicted reliability of all manufacturers today: "Toyota Slips, Ford Gains" is the headline. 'Despite a stellar record overall ... three Toyota models ... rate below average reliability". List includes latest Camry V6. "The slip means that Toyota now ranks third in overall reliability ... behind Honda and Subaru.". "Ford's standing has risen considerably ... The Ford Fusion/Mercury Milan ... are among the most reliable vehicles in their class". "The news from Europe has been mostly dismal in recent years, but things could be turning around. Reliability of some Audi, BMW, Jaguar and Porsche models has improved".

So the ratings go, Honda, Subaru, Toyota.

Recommended cars from other mfr's include Dodge Charger, VW Jetta, Lincoln MKX. NOT recommended include BMW 6, VW Passat (V6), VW GTi.

In this article: http://www.auto-broker-magic.com/used-car-ratings.html
The top ratings go to Mazda, then Honda, then Toyota. Audi ranks 27th. Ford is the higest US brand at #14. VW ranks #23. This particular article bases its ratings on warranty repair claims.

This article lists recommendations by category, and is based on Consumer Reports data: http://autos.msn.com/advice/CRArt.as...tentid=4023544

An article from last year said this: "Toyota is predicted to have the most reliable cars, moving up to first from third place last year. Honda remained unchanged in second place while Scion, Toyota's youth brand, moved up to third place, from seventh. The top five most reliable brands of vehicles are all made by Toyota or Honda, according to the Consumer Reports survey."

Reliability is only one factor to consider, of course. You can't bargain much on a Japanese car, because the dealers know they have a solid product, and they don't have to offer below-market financing and rebates to shift them. European cars still have the edge in handling, as a whole. Styling wise, I find the latest BMWs to be atrocious, and the new Audis are not much better. The new Accord is equally hideous, and the new Camry is hard to swallow. The infiniti G35 is in my book an attractive proposition, as is my Acura TL (to be replaced next year, will probably be uglified). The G35 is rear wheel drive, the TL is front wheel drive. If you will encounter snow, front is good.

meauxna

That's weird. Living in the PNW I thought there were only 2 car brands: Volvo & Subaru. And a whole bunch o' SUVs.

Dan725

Aye, SUV's drastically missing from this list!!

lapin_windstar

Oh, I really like the look of the new BMWs, the 3 series are the best in years! Too bad I'm not anywhere near being their target market...

another bloody yank

Got here late, but I put around 50k a year on our Hyundai, which is my commuter. It's an '03 which we bought in '04 when it had 10k on the clock after having been used as a rental. It's got 167xxx on it now.

Weirdstone

167 kisses on it ? ... my - what have you been doing ?!

Sorry to hijack the thread ...but just had to ask

Steerpike

Yes, the Hyundai's are supposed to be great. I seriously considered the new top-of-the-line Azera when looking at the Acura TL. All the reviews said it was every bit as good and about $5k cheaper. My problem was, the nearest dealers were a long way away, and seemed more 'old fashioned' in their approach when I emailed them (I did the entire purchase process via email, establishing the final sales price down to the dollar before going in to make the final purchase; test drives were done at separate dealers); Hyundai were unwilling to give me a solid price and seemed very disorganized. But I would seriously consider them again; they are the underdog in 'appeal' and so are making up for it in features, price, and warranty.