visa waiver program: you might like to know
Mar 27th 2009, 4:23 am
#31
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 35,082
Re: visa waiver program: you might like to know
Your circumstances/situation have changed. You need a new opinion. You won't get that from the Consulate except by way of a visa application.
Mar 27th 2009, 4:24 am
#32
Account Closed
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 16,266
Re: visa waiver program: you might like to know
Hi guys,
Thought this little cautionary tale might be of some interest to some of you!
Very brief summary of my circumstances.......
Some of you may know from my previous posts, I'm a student nurse, final year. My OH is a UK citizen who has been working in US for 6 years, has a green card and is 2 years away from applying for citizenship. After USC is (hopefully) granted, we will get married, and my son and I will move to the US. In the meantime I'm hoping to undertake the graduate nurse program in Australia, whilst we are wading through the citizenship route.
Ok now the cautionary bit of the tale...
For the past 6 years, I have been travelling to the US on VWP, and NEVER once have I abused this. Although I have made, on average 3-4 trips per year, the duration has ranged from 1 week to 3 weeks. Most times at POE I've had a bit of interrogation, but on the whole not too bad. However I arrived in the US yesterday for a 8 day trip, and boy oh boy, did I get a roasting!! They took my biometrics and asked the usual questions: why are you here?, how long are you staying?, show me your return ticket information etc.
Then I got to the customs guys, to hand in my form, and was duly taken aside and spoken to, in what I would say was initially, a very hostile and disrespectful manner. The official asked the same questions as previous guy did, then he tells me that this is the last time I will be allowed in the US under VWP! I began to ask him why this was the case, and he told me to keep quite, he was talking!!
He then went on to explain that, I had come over on 27th Dec 08 and returned on 8th January, and therefore was abusing the VWP. He said it had nothing to do with my previous trips, but more importantly, the time between my January 09 departure and this visit was way too close.
I was very very upset at the way in which I was spoken to, and that for the most part, was not allowed to say anything in reply. However, he did finish off my telling me that I need a B2 visa from now on. He then finally gave me the opportunity to ask a question. I explained that we had to postpone our original wedding, as, OH was getting his green card and that since my boy and I would still be in the UK, would be denied entry to US as a spouse of green card holder. I explained that we obtained immigration lawyer advice about this, where upon the Custom's guys, informed me that, 'immigration lawyers and judges know nothing' and that, he and his associates are the ones who have the power to deny me entry. And...finally....he says, 'lady I'm giving you free advice here, and I like you, and I'm trying to be nice...get a B2visa if you want to keep coming here!'.
So there you have it, folks...and honestly (cause I'm a very big scardy cat!!) I NEVER once thought that I was taking advantage of the VWP or doing anything I ought not to, otherwise I wouldn't have used the VWP.
From what he said, it was not the duration of my trips but the issue of the 3-4 x year frequency of them. I felt completely drained and so humiliated and upset at the time, and now, I just feel angry at myself for taking advantage of the visa, albeit, unwittingly!!
So now, I don't even know if the B2 visa will work for me i.e. small frequent trips, 3-4 times per year!!
yc2m
Thought this little cautionary tale might be of some interest to some of you!
Very brief summary of my circumstances.......
Some of you may know from my previous posts, I'm a student nurse, final year. My OH is a UK citizen who has been working in US for 6 years, has a green card and is 2 years away from applying for citizenship. After USC is (hopefully) granted, we will get married, and my son and I will move to the US. In the meantime I'm hoping to undertake the graduate nurse program in Australia, whilst we are wading through the citizenship route.
Ok now the cautionary bit of the tale...
For the past 6 years, I have been travelling to the US on VWP, and NEVER once have I abused this. Although I have made, on average 3-4 trips per year, the duration has ranged from 1 week to 3 weeks. Most times at POE I've had a bit of interrogation, but on the whole not too bad. However I arrived in the US yesterday for a 8 day trip, and boy oh boy, did I get a roasting!! They took my biometrics and asked the usual questions: why are you here?, how long are you staying?, show me your return ticket information etc.
Then I got to the customs guys, to hand in my form, and was duly taken aside and spoken to, in what I would say was initially, a very hostile and disrespectful manner. The official asked the same questions as previous guy did, then he tells me that this is the last time I will be allowed in the US under VWP! I began to ask him why this was the case, and he told me to keep quite, he was talking!!
He then went on to explain that, I had come over on 27th Dec 08 and returned on 8th January, and therefore was abusing the VWP. He said it had nothing to do with my previous trips, but more importantly, the time between my January 09 departure and this visit was way too close.
I was very very upset at the way in which I was spoken to, and that for the most part, was not allowed to say anything in reply. However, he did finish off my telling me that I need a B2 visa from now on. He then finally gave me the opportunity to ask a question. I explained that we had to postpone our original wedding, as, OH was getting his green card and that since my boy and I would still be in the UK, would be denied entry to US as a spouse of green card holder. I explained that we obtained immigration lawyer advice about this, where upon the Custom's guys, informed me that, 'immigration lawyers and judges know nothing' and that, he and his associates are the ones who have the power to deny me entry. And...finally....he says, 'lady I'm giving you free advice here, and I like you, and I'm trying to be nice...get a B2visa if you want to keep coming here!'.
So there you have it, folks...and honestly (cause I'm a very big scardy cat!!) I NEVER once thought that I was taking advantage of the VWP or doing anything I ought not to, otherwise I wouldn't have used the VWP.
From what he said, it was not the duration of my trips but the issue of the 3-4 x year frequency of them. I felt completely drained and so humiliated and upset at the time, and now, I just feel angry at myself for taking advantage of the visa, albeit, unwittingly!!
So now, I don't even know if the B2 visa will work for me i.e. small frequent trips, 3-4 times per year!!
yc2m
Congratulations in obtaining a favorable result when confronted with the "Inspector From Hell." Well done!
Good luck in your future endeavors.
Mar 27th 2009, 4:25 am
#33
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Oct 2003
Location: Avon Lake, OH
Posts: 5,270
Re: visa waiver program: you might like to know
This could throw up something interesting (to me anyway) and weird. The actual POE official said no problem but the guy taking the customs form said she can't use the VWP. So, if she has a stamp in her passport granting her entry for a set period of time, has gone through the immigration part, is she now technically in the US and wouldn't they have to go through a deportation to get her to leave rather than just denying entry? I guess I don't really know where the official line of "here you are awaiting entry to the US, here you are officially in the US" is.
Mar 27th 2009, 4:28 am
#34
Account Closed
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 16,266
Re: visa waiver program: you might like to know
That is not what Elvira suggested.. she suggested the same thing I will: speak to a lawyer again. Maybe the same person you consulted before.
Your circumstances/situation have changed. You need a new opinion. You won't get that from the Consulate except by way of a visa application.
Your circumstances/situation have changed. You need a new opinion. You won't get that from the Consulate except by way of a visa application.
I happen to concurr.
To be more blunt, sometimes the lawyer's crystal ball does not function on a particular case. If a lawyer says "no problem" regarding a future event, be careful. However, quite often there will be consultations like this where something gets lost in translation:
Lawyer says: "It should be no problem."
Client hears: "It will no problem."
Mar 27th 2009, 4:29 am
#35
American Expat
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 7,598
Re: visa waiver program: you might like to know
This could throw up something interesting (to me anyway) and weird. The actual POE official said no problem but the guy taking the customs form said she can't use the VWP. So, if she has a stamp in her passport granting her entry for a set period of time, has gone through the immigration part, is she now technically in the US and wouldn't they have to go through a deportation to get her to leave rather than just denying entry? I guess I don't really know where the official line of "here you are awaiting entry to the US, here you are officially in the US" is.
It doesn't matter with VWP though. They can scoop the visitor off the street at any time and the waiver of the hearing they signed at entry still applies. There's a VWP Refusal and a VWP Removal. A VWP Refusal means you need a visa, but a VWP Removal carries a 10 year bar.
Mar 27th 2009, 6:13 am
#38
Homebody
Joined: Jan 2005
Location: HOME
Posts: 23,182
Re: visa waiver program: you might like to know
That is not what Elvira suggested.. she suggested the same thing I will: speak to a lawyer again. Maybe the same person you consulted before.
Your circumstances/situation have changed. You need a new opinion. You won't get that from the Consulate except by way of a visa application.
Your circumstances/situation have changed. You need a new opinion. You won't get that from the Consulate except by way of a visa application.
I note that they got their initial advice from the fiance's company's lawyer. Maybe it would be worthwhile consulting someone who specialises in marriage-based immigration? Just a thought...
Last edited by Elvira; Mar 27th 2009 at 6:42 am.
Mar 27th 2009, 6:17 am
#39
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 35,082
Re: visa waiver program: you might like to know
Very good idea re: a different lawyer.
In the OP, she wrote "He then finally gave me the opportunity to ask a question. I explained that we had to postpone our original wedding, as, OH was getting his green card and that since my boy and I would still be in the UK, would be denied entry to US as a spouse of green card holder."
In the OP, she wrote "He then finally gave me the opportunity to ask a question. I explained that we had to postpone our original wedding, as, OH was getting his green card and that since my boy and I would still be in the UK, would be denied entry to US as a spouse of green card holder."
Mar 27th 2009, 6:20 am
#40
BE Enthusiast
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 766
Re: visa waiver program: you might like to know
thats a bit worrying. We vacation at least 3 times a year,sometimes 4.
last visit Feb, before that Oct, going again in May !!!!
last visit Feb, before that Oct, going again in May !!!!
Mar 27th 2009, 6:25 am
#41
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 35,082
Re: visa waiver program: you might like to know
If your circumstances are different from this OP, you shouldn't be concerned because of this thread.
Mar 27th 2009, 6:27 am
#42
Homebody
Joined: Jan 2005
Location: HOME
Posts: 23,182
Re: visa waiver program: you might like to know
Very good idea re: a different lawyer.
In the OP, she wrote "He then finally gave me the opportunity to ask a question. I explained that we had to postpone our original wedding, as, OH was getting his green card and that since my boy and I would still be in the UK, would be denied entry to US as a spouse of green card holder."
In the OP, she wrote "He then finally gave me the opportunity to ask a question. I explained that we had to postpone our original wedding, as, OH was getting his green card and that since my boy and I would still be in the UK, would be denied entry to US as a spouse of green card holder."
So they could have been living together in the US all this time?
Mar 27th 2009, 6:29 am
#43
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 35,082
Re: visa waiver program: you might like to know
But I put that in regarding her objection (possibly) to filing I-130 now. She thinks she would not be able to visit.
I didn't first look at the 'when did he become a PR' thing.
Mar 27th 2009, 6:36 am
#44
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Oct 2003
Location: Avon Lake, OH
Posts: 5,270
Re: visa waiver program: you might like to know
Being stamped doesn't mean anything until you are free of government control. Someone ran that through the court system. They were nailed between immigration and customs, tried to claim they were already admitted, and lost the case. The person has to be released and leave the area.
It doesn't matter with VWP though. They can scoop the visitor off the street at any time and the waiver of the hearing they signed at entry still applies. There's a VWP Refusal and a VWP Removal. A VWP Refusal means you need a visa, but a VWP Removal carries a 10 year bar.
Mar 27th 2009, 6:39 am
#45
Account Closed
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 16,266
Re: visa waiver program: you might like to know
Duncan's question is a good one. You do bring up Matter of Patel -- http://www.usdoj.gov/eoir/vll/intdec/vol20/3157.pdf. Until Patel came down, it was standard practice, at least in Los Angeles to treat the person as having completed his inspection and having effectuated an "entry." [Don't get me started on the term "entry" -- it was purportedly abolished in 1996 -- but renmants remains and still create confusion].
With the 2003 merger of former INS inspectors into the Customs service and then into the newly created Department of Homeland Security -- I think Patel is stronger yet.
