KCK_DR

I know you are right, I know north-western and north-central Europe very well. But they don’t. It is a racial thing. It is something like “Guess who is coming to dinner” situation.
Also, don’t forget that most of the recent “immigrants” from the mid-west are Blue Collar retires that could not afford a better place to retire.
Upper management retired to Torrey Pines for golf, middle management retired to Carlsbad and the rest to SaddleBrook village outside Tucson or Robson Ranch outside the hellish little town of Eloy, where the supermarket is called CircleK.
Now remember when Italians and Irish were still considered sub-human for their religion? Italians on top of it were kind of dark. Let’s not forget the Polish and other Eastern Europeans and how they were treated.
It is interesting that in my experience in Arizona it is exactly those same Polish, Italians and Irish mid-westerners that are doing their best to get rid of the Latinos. Go figure. Also this is not about jobs, it is not about jobs, because most of the people acting up are retired.
Most Mexicans do not have clear European ancestry, they have some cultural affinity to Spain, but Mexicans on both sides of the border have lots and lots of indigenous blood.
In fact here is the treatment on both sides of the border:
- White European looking are the bosses – in most cases of the drug cartels too, I believe.
- Mixed bloods have some less stress placed on them, but the more indigenous looking the worst for them.
- Indigenous looking Mexicans, oh boy are they in for it …
I remember when Arpaio was rounding up the Yauqui Indians in Guadeloupe in South Phoenix Metro. All of them natural born Americans for much longer – generations wise – than Il Duce Arpaio the Italian who’s people were treated like garbage in New York a generation or two ago.
For the victim to victimize it is a worst sin in my eyes… but he gets them votes from the Blue Collar Elite from the Mid-West.

KCK_DR

+1

I sitting having a drink – several years ago – at the “famous” Sullivan’s Stakehouse in Tucson, a high-end meat market at the time, with great people watching opportunities. And here is an anthropological observation I made:
The children of the rich Mexicans – all white looking, albeit darker than Anglos – were drinking expensive martinis of all colors and were very boisterous in their appearance, level of voice and sense of entitlement. They were in the United States mostly on F1 visas from Pima Community College or some such institution and were sent to not study but to avoid the war in Mexico. I would not have been surprised to find out that their parents were causing the war to begin with.

In juxtaposition

The people that came to bus the tables , the ones that cleaned the bathroom when someone threw up were indigenous looking Mexicans, who were illegally here and tried to not attract attention to themselves, so as to not be deported back to their war ravaged country.

Go figure.

KK

P.S. And I am not that liberal either !!!!!

Steve_

It's funny, because it's true...

Steve_

This is a much more comprehensive summary written in language that is somewhat understandable: Summary PDF.

The bit dealing with H-1B and L-1 I suspect is of most interest to people on this forum.

Quite an interesting idea to require pay to be above the prevailing wage as a way to encourage employers to hire Americans.

Michael

That is also a way to make sure that employers are hiring experts and not just the run of the mill employees. When I was working, many that were hired were very average even though their resume would seem to indicate a higher degree of expertise but their pay sure didn't reflect that. When I complained about one to other employees, they said "well he is only a junior programmer".

airbusfan

Just passed the committee, which is a great milestone for such a big bill!

civilservant

A shame to see same-sex couple immigration canned though.

Steve_

I don't think it's ever been in question that the Senate will do something, the question is what the House will do with it. They're already talking about breaking it up into several bills. Some of the bits where there is consensus, like tougher border security, cracking down on L-1 abuse, etc. may become law but anything that allows more people in or regularizes the status of people is going to be tough.

Because the bill contains a "trigger" before people can regularize their status, I suspect the Republicans in the House will say it is better to actually make a law first enhancing border security and then have a separate law when that is done rather than having a trigger.

scrubbedexpat099

Which makes a lot of sense.

One wonders why it has not been done first.

KCK_DR

Because once the Rs get what they want they will not give the Ds what they promised!

Once they get a secure border, they will begin talking of deportation and zero amnesty!

So why give them what they want without input from the other side.

I love the U.S. system. A European parliamentary system would have concluded the deliberations with the majority acting autocratically and cause all kinds of unintended consequences and the subsequent legislation to fix the problem and so on and so forth.
Democracy is not about majority rule, rather it is about protections for the minority opinion. Europe just does not know that … yet … and maybe never.

Politics 101 – get what you can now and break all promises later.

That is the same song and dance of the fringes on both sides of the political spectrum.

The tea party reminds me of very left wing Ds who want to stop all human activity to save the planet for what I will never know.

jeffreyhy

Also as a way to get employers to treat the foreign employees fairly, and not hire foreign workers in lieu of American workers because the foreign workers are willing to work for less money (a different way of saying the same thing that you have written).

Regards, JEff

scrubbedexpat099

So the inverse of the last Amnesty?

US is not a democracy, if it was we would not have this issue.

That is the US system.

KCK_DR

I have no opinion on the issue, other than to say that we would have no problem if businesses were criminally penalized for using unauthorized labor.

But I have a problem with people advocating no-amnesty when they actually want zero immigration, but hide behind that curtain.

Granted. It is not a democracy it is a republic.

So to re-state: I prefer the U.S. system, exactly because it is slow moving and attempts to reach a consensus giving less power to the majority and providing protections for the voice of the minority.

FDR tried to destroy this system, with attempts at discrediting the high court and by attempts to dilute the power of congress, thank God he failed, otherwise we would be like Britain, France or even worst, like Italy or Greece!!!!

Agreed. So you make a deal and not give up everything on a hope the other guy is going to give you what you want later.

scrubbedexpat099

This is the biggie and realistically missing from the current legislation.

Steve_

It made sense years ago but it doesn't anymore, it can't cope with a population of 315 million people. Especially seeing as it has been subverted, e.g. a lack of independence in the electoral system so it heavily favours the two-party system.

You now have a situation where two people in the US Senate are the representatives of 38 million Californians. And each member of the House represents over 720,000 people. By comparison the population of Canada is 34 million and the House of Commons has 308 members.

Which wouldn't be such a problem if the Federal govt. wasn't doing more than was ever planned and State legislatures weren't now sitting around doing very little. Which is reflected in the tax code, instead of raising the money to build X locally with local taxes, they go to the Federal govt. to get a grant.

More should be done by the States and less by the Federal Govt. In fact I think you could argue for another tier of govt. between States and the Federal Govt., which would be responsible for example for social security and healthcare so payroll taxes could be regionally different.

What interaction really does someone who lives in Guam or Hawaii or California for that matter ever have with Washington DC?

So anyway you end up with these bizarre constituencies of people which in most countries would be the lunatic fringe but in the US they're such a large lunatic fringe they have to be taken seriously, which is why the $1 bill is still in circulation, the Selective Service hasn't been abolished and it costs 46 cents to sent a letter from the CMNI to the USVI, etc.

Immigration reform is a perfect example, it affects different areas of the country very differently.