Stupid law enforcement rules USA
#166
And YOU'RE paying for it!
Joined: May 2007
Location: kipper tie?
Posts: 2,328
Re: Stupid law enforcement rules USA
Why would you compare the starting pay for a public defender and the average pay for a teacher? Shouldn't you compare the average for each? One is an entry level position, and one is a career.
I asked a cop aquaintance about that Supreme Court decision. He said that if the cops really want to search the car and the decision stands in the way, they can just get a dog to sniff it or they'll tow the vehicle and inventory the contents.
I asked a cop aquaintance about that Supreme Court decision. He said that if the cops really want to search the car and the decision stands in the way, they can just get a dog to sniff it or they'll tow the vehicle and inventory the contents.
I didn't average to average and starting to salary for public defender and teachers in MA because I couldn't be bothered looking for the exact data (be my guest), and because if the average teacher's salary is $1,000 below the starting trooper's salary then it's self-evident that the starting teacher's salary is going to be below that, and that was enough for making the (hardly earth-shatteringly deep) point I was making. Obviously.
2) I agree that police aren't likely to be restrained much by the recent court decision (or as we like to call it, the law), that dog sniffs are bullshit, and that abuse of process is a daily thing for some people.
#167
Forum Regular
Joined: Jul 2008
Location: USA
Posts: 218
Re: Stupid law enforcement rules USA
So let's get back to the BBW, i'm still waiting for pics.
#168
Forum Regular
Joined: Jul 2008
Location: USA
Posts: 218
Re: Stupid law enforcement rules USA
The NH state troopers have voice activated computers in their cars, it was developed at UNH and is called (and i sh*t you not), "The car 54 programme"
#169
American Expat
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 7,598
Re: Stupid law enforcement rules USA
1) I have no idea what you're talking about when you say "one is an entry level position, and one is a career". Neither is an entry level position.
I didn't average to average and starting to salary for public defender and teachers in MA because I couldn't be bothered looking for the exact data (be my guest), and because if the average teacher's salary is $1,000 below the starting trooper's salary then it's self-evident that the starting teacher's salary is going to be below that, and that was enough for making the (hardly earth-shatteringly deep) point I was making. Obviously.
2) I agree that police aren't likely to be restrained much by the recent court decision (or as we like to call it, the law), that dog sniffs are bullshit, and that abuse of process is a daily thing for some people.
I didn't average to average and starting to salary for public defender and teachers in MA because I couldn't be bothered looking for the exact data (be my guest), and because if the average teacher's salary is $1,000 below the starting trooper's salary then it's self-evident that the starting teacher's salary is going to be below that, and that was enough for making the (hardly earth-shatteringly deep) point I was making. Obviously.
2) I agree that police aren't likely to be restrained much by the recent court decision (or as we like to call it, the law), that dog sniffs are bullshit, and that abuse of process is a daily thing for some people.
The dogs are quite accurate. I suspect some cops may merely claim that the dog hit on the car, but if the dog really hits, there is or was dope there.
#170
And YOU'RE paying for it!
Joined: May 2007
Location: kipper tie?
Posts: 2,328
Re: Stupid law enforcement rules USA
Just because some lawyers work somewhere else after working as Public Defenders doesn't mean that being a Public Defender isn't a career and is just an entry level position. You wouldn't say that being a Prosecutor is an entry level position because plenty of them go off to become private sector criminal lawyers (often not very good ones). (BTW, prosecutors are paid more than public defenders, generally speaking).
Apart from the bleeding obviousness of that point, think about it logically for a second: there are different levels of seniority for Public Defenders (I believe the source I linked to above details some salaries up the scale too). How can multiple levels of seniority all be a starting position?
But you're just proving my point here, actually - that much of the carping about how cops get paid too little doesn't stand up when compared to other, more highly qualified, less well-paid public servants. Why do people only suggest that nurses, teachers and social workers should accept lower salaries and be motivated by public duty and not cops, sanitation workers and prison guards? (I think the answer is obvious).
#171
Re: Stupid law enforcement rules USA
Just because some lawyers work somewhere else after working as Public Defenders doesn't mean that being a Public Defender isn't a career and is just an entry level position. You wouldn't say that being a Prosecutor is an entry level position because plenty of them go off to become private sector criminal lawyers (often not very good ones).
#172
American Expat
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 7,598
Re: Stupid law enforcement rules USA
LOL - I can hear the squeals of you backpedalling from here.
Just because some lawyers work somewhere else after working as Public Defenders doesn't mean that being a Public Defender isn't a career and is just an entry level position. You wouldn't say that being a Prosecutor is an entry level position because plenty of them go off to become private sector criminal lawyers (often not very good ones). (BTW, prosecutors are paid more than public defenders, generally speaking).
Apart from the bleeding obviousness of that point, think about it logically for a second: there are different levels of seniority for Public Defenders (I believe the source I linked to above details some salaries up the scale too). How can multiple levels of seniority all be a starting position?
But you're just proving my point here, actually - that much of the carping about how cops get paid too little doesn't stand up when compared to other, more highly qualified, less well-paid public servants. Why do people only suggest that nurses, teachers and social workers should accept lower salaries and be motivated by public duty and not cops, sanitation workers and prison guards? (I think the answer is obvious).
Just because some lawyers work somewhere else after working as Public Defenders doesn't mean that being a Public Defender isn't a career and is just an entry level position. You wouldn't say that being a Prosecutor is an entry level position because plenty of them go off to become private sector criminal lawyers (often not very good ones). (BTW, prosecutors are paid more than public defenders, generally speaking).
Apart from the bleeding obviousness of that point, think about it logically for a second: there are different levels of seniority for Public Defenders (I believe the source I linked to above details some salaries up the scale too). How can multiple levels of seniority all be a starting position?
But you're just proving my point here, actually - that much of the carping about how cops get paid too little doesn't stand up when compared to other, more highly qualified, less well-paid public servants. Why do people only suggest that nurses, teachers and social workers should accept lower salaries and be motivated by public duty and not cops, sanitation workers and prison guards? (I think the answer is obvious).
I never said cops don't get paid enough. Also the nurses, and teachers get paid quite well where I have lived. A first year public defender makes $46k in NYC. A first year cop in the NYPD makes $41k. A starting teacher makes $45.5k and $51.5k with a masters.
And who said all NYC public school teachers are all highly qualified?
In some locations the salary for a public defender ranges from $45 to $135k. However, it's the supervisor that gets the $135k. They all can't be supervisors and some public defender offices have high turnover.
I'm not bothered by this. An accused who can't afford a lawyer is not entitled to have Johnnie Cocharan represent them for free.
#173
Account Closed
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 0
Re: Stupid law enforcement rules USA
As someone who has been issued five tickets in my six years in the US, I have to say that the laws the law and if you don't follow the law, you had better get used to being issued tickets and paying the fine.
1) Cellphone while driving - I was on the phone for 10 seconds telling my wife, I'd call her back and got pulled over.
2) Speeding - On the morning my wife told me she was pregnant and I was not paying attention
3) Speeding - Nothing to add.
4) Failing to stop at a stop sign - I bloody well did stop, but I saw no beneift it fighting it as it was my word against the cops.
5) Drivers side headlight out - It blew on xmas eve 2008 and I got pulled over on boxing day. Obviously I'd had no chance to get it repaired.
All that said, I've broken the speed limit a lot more than twice and I HAVE had instances when I have not completely stopped at a stop sign, so it's not worth complaining.
1) Cellphone while driving - I was on the phone for 10 seconds telling my wife, I'd call her back and got pulled over.
2) Speeding - On the morning my wife told me she was pregnant and I was not paying attention
3) Speeding - Nothing to add.
4) Failing to stop at a stop sign - I bloody well did stop, but I saw no beneift it fighting it as it was my word against the cops.
5) Drivers side headlight out - It blew on xmas eve 2008 and I got pulled over on boxing day. Obviously I'd had no chance to get it repaired.
All that said, I've broken the speed limit a lot more than twice and I HAVE had instances when I have not completely stopped at a stop sign, so it's not worth complaining.
10 years driving in the US and never received a ticket, not hard to avoid getting them.