snowbunny

Good question. Since actually surveying such data would mean that a worker or his/her employer would have to reveal their undocumented status, well.... ain't gonna happen, is it?

Again, it's down to wages. I bet there are some college kids who'd pick fruit if the price were right. But maybe they can't be bossed around as much because they aren't dependent on the wages for survival.

That's other conundrum. Americans seem to have a lower work ethic than Mexicans (starvation and poverty are powerful motivators) but a higher "education" ethic, especially for post-high school education.

Someone needs to give Americans a good kick up the collective arse and remind them that if they don't do their job professionally, with attention to detail, with minimal error, they WILL lose out to someone else.

Philgr

But the number of illegals is estimated at around ~10M, which is higher than the unemployment rate of ~7.5M suggesting that even if the unemployed "official" workers moved to 100% employment economic growth in the US would still be slowed due to lack of workers without illegals.


Lots of people would pick fruit if the price is right but you are competing in a global maket - if you can't grow and deliver fruit to market as cheaply as other producers in countries where labour is cheap you won't sell your fruit - so you can't pay your workers anything. No US Government is going to have the political stomach to allow its immigration policy to drive multiple US industries out of business which would be the effect of cutting the workforce/driving up wages.

The alternative is import tariffs, which are equally unattractive.

I'm not sure I understand the distinction you are drawing - the First World needs to have an education ethic because our population is not willing to accept the low wages (and thus low quality of life) necessary to compete in labour intensive markets. It is only through education that people will learn and develop skills to set themselves apart and to compete through differentiation rather than price. Having the attitude that we have a god given right to well paid jobs that can, in fact, be done easily by anyone, anywhere is what is driving us to disaster. But things are going to have to get a lot worse before Joe public will start to accept this kind of message from his political leaders and continue to vote for them.

HoosierDaddy

Random thought.

I'm sick of the fruit & veg growers bitching and moaning about the fact that they need these illegals.
To my mind, the price of fruit & veg is wayyyy too low. Jack it up and make us pay what it's worth, not keep the prices low as they have a labour force in place.

snowbunny

To choose one point:

Yes, there might be a labour shortage, but we could certainly do a better job at screening eager applicants from the world over to do precisely the work we need them to do rather than whatever they can find illegally.

Angry White Pyjamas

Whoaa! The Yank diet is shite enough as it is without pricing vast amounts of the populace out of beign able to afford fruit and veg. The knock on effect is even more (long term) health problems and costs to the economy.

snowbunny

I agree with you; but why effectively subsidise fruit/veg growers when most of us DO have to compete globally without low-priced illegal labour?

Elvira

Absolutely! Agree 100%. Veggies are already way more expensive than in the UK.

Elvira

Because it doesn't make sense not to! People have to eat, including poor people. There is less room for cutting costs than with say, housing, clothing, transport and other essentials.

Philgr

Because the US population isn't willing to pay more for food they can get cheaper elsewhere, so removing cheap labour will drive US producers out of business - which will lead to more imports, a worse balance of trade deficit and political unrest as the US becomes more dependent on foreign countries to feed its own people.

ironporer

Much wisdom in your words Sensei...

snowbunny

Hmmm.... I'd argue that people also need health care. Shall we remove patent protection from drugs?

snowbunny

....only accelerating a process that began with steel, oil, clothing, electronics....

ironporer

Sounds easy but it is not. They can jack up the price of American grapes and lettuce- and the only thing that would happen is it would not be bought by the stores- as Chilean/Mexican/ etc produce is produced and sold much cheaper.

Like one Farmer said this morning on TV.."If you hate being dependant on foreign oil, you're really going to like being dependant on foreign food.

Philgr

apart from oil I'd agree with you - I think the US is still about the third largest producer of oil in the world - it just uses more than it produces so it still has to import.

Elvira

Sorry what is your point?