I-212 Help please hubby had been deported
Jul 31st 2008, 9:47 pm
#61
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Re: I-212 Help please hubby had been deported
It sounds like you aren't coming back to read/reply to the thread anymore, but I'll comment anyway. I was a consultant in a prior position, and of course doing 'consulting' is working. If the UK company sent him over here to even remotely discuss anything business related, he technically needed a B business visa. You cannot legally work, in any way whatsoever, in the US on the Visa Waiver Program. If I was visiting the US from the UK, while on holiday, and I happen to read and respond to work emails, technically that can be construed as working to the US gov't. They take a very strict view of what is considered working, whether we agree with or not.
I really don't understand why you want to throw in the towel and give up at this juncture. I think we've all given you some decent advice, and hopefully shown you that you may have a decent chance at getting the ban forgiven. I would think that that American stubbornness you claimed to have would help you to keep perservering until you got the approval you need.
Of course they have quotas on the amount of people that can enter the US based on different visas. Specifically, one of those visas are work visas. You wouldn't want all and sundry getting a work visa and taking jobs away from us, so they limit how many can be given out every year. However, given he is the spouse of a US citizen, there is no quota on those visas, so you have no worry there. Your worry is to prove your hardship to remaining in the UK.
If you were simply willing to take a little more effort (and stop digging your heels in) and take a few hours to consult with an attorney that specializes in hardship waivers, you may find your case isn't so dismal after all. Often those first time consultations are at a relatively low cost, so what does it hurt you to speak to an attorney to find out what your chances are, eh?
We completely understand the frustration and anger that this process causes, we've all been there. Instead of standing on some kind of principle, because of the way you've been treated thus far, or because you think the process should be easier because your American, keep perservering. If you've already filed the I-130, then you're halfway there. What does it hurt you, to go a few more months to see if you can get a waiver approved?? That's a hell of a lot quicker than starting over with trying get into Canada.
I really don't understand why you want to throw in the towel and give up at this juncture. I think we've all given you some decent advice, and hopefully shown you that you may have a decent chance at getting the ban forgiven. I would think that that American stubbornness you claimed to have would help you to keep perservering until you got the approval you need.
Of course they have quotas on the amount of people that can enter the US based on different visas. Specifically, one of those visas are work visas. You wouldn't want all and sundry getting a work visa and taking jobs away from us, so they limit how many can be given out every year. However, given he is the spouse of a US citizen, there is no quota on those visas, so you have no worry there. Your worry is to prove your hardship to remaining in the UK.
If you were simply willing to take a little more effort (and stop digging your heels in) and take a few hours to consult with an attorney that specializes in hardship waivers, you may find your case isn't so dismal after all. Often those first time consultations are at a relatively low cost, so what does it hurt you to speak to an attorney to find out what your chances are, eh?
We completely understand the frustration and anger that this process causes, we've all been there. Instead of standing on some kind of principle, because of the way you've been treated thus far, or because you think the process should be easier because your American, keep perservering. If you've already filed the I-130, then you're halfway there. What does it hurt you, to go a few more months to see if you can get a waiver approved?? That's a hell of a lot quicker than starting over with trying get into Canada.
Jul 31st 2008, 9:49 pm
#62
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Re: I-212 Help please hubby had been deported
I find it interesting that she came here asking for (I should say pleading for, according to the title of her thread) help, and then decided to abandon the whole thing! 
Rene
Rene
Jul 31st 2008, 9:59 pm
#63
Septicity
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 23,762
Re: I-212 Help please hubby had been deported
...when the whole thing is likely solvable. And I'm guessing she'll spend just as much and probably have nearly as much aggravation getting to Canada.
Jul 31st 2008, 10:10 pm
#64
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Re: I-212 Help please hubby had been deported
I didn't want to reply anymore about my husbands deportation because there is no point, I guess I cannot help myself.
Noorah I did get help and advice, I have thanked people for the advice.
I guess I should persevere and have a more American "Never surrender never give up" attitude but its not worth my happiness for all the stress and misery.
They change the goal post everytime you deal with them, it's a gamble when dealing with them. I don't like gambling my money away. They tell you submit a certain form and then you do that and then say oh well you should have also submitted this other form as well. Its laughable.
It has put me off him going for an Immigration Visa. I just want to try and have it so he can visit the states again so we can spend time together with my Grandma and not be apart.
I plan to just wait and see if his friend gets his I-212 approved, he had applied as well for a spousal visa and was turned down and told to send off a I-212. If....................................his friend is approved then we will send off for an I-212, until then.
I would rather us focus on trying to move to Canada, even if it takes a few years thats fine by me, it gives us more time to figure out where we want to live in Canada. He has enough points and there have been quite a few companies offering relocation packages so we'll see what fate has in store for us.
1 question though for Folinskyinla since you appear to be a lawyer having to deal with this crazy system, the 601 and i-212 seem the same to me, do you have to submit both or is the i-212 for just an immigration violation for working illegally?
Noorah I did get help and advice, I have thanked people for the advice.
I guess I should persevere and have a more American "Never surrender never give up" attitude but its not worth my happiness for all the stress and misery.
They change the goal post everytime you deal with them, it's a gamble when dealing with them. I don't like gambling my money away. They tell you submit a certain form and then you do that and then say oh well you should have also submitted this other form as well. Its laughable.
It has put me off him going for an Immigration Visa. I just want to try and have it so he can visit the states again so we can spend time together with my Grandma and not be apart.
I plan to just wait and see if his friend gets his I-212 approved, he had applied as well for a spousal visa and was turned down and told to send off a I-212. If....................................his friend is approved then we will send off for an I-212, until then.
I would rather us focus on trying to move to Canada, even if it takes a few years thats fine by me, it gives us more time to figure out where we want to live in Canada. He has enough points and there have been quite a few companies offering relocation packages so we'll see what fate has in store for us.
1 question though for Folinskyinla since you appear to be a lawyer having to deal with this crazy system, the 601 and i-212 seem the same to me, do you have to submit both or is the i-212 for just an immigration violation for working illegally?
Jul 31st 2008, 10:19 pm
#65
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Re: I-212 Help please hubby had been deported
I didn't want to reply anymore about my husbands deportation because there is no point, I guess I cannot help myself.
Noorah I did get help and advice, I have thanked people for the advice.
I guess I should persevere and have a more American "Never surrender never give up" attitude but its not worth my happiness for all the stress and misery.
They change the goal post everytime you deal with them, it's a gamble when dealing with them. I don't like gambling my money away. They tell you submit a certain form and then you do that and then say oh well you should have also submitted this other form as well. Its laughable.
It has put me off him going for an Immigration Visa. I just want to try and have it so he can visit the states again so we can spend time together with my Grandma and not be apart.
I plan to just wait and see if his friend gets his I-212 approved, he had applied as well for a spousal visa and was turned down and told to send off a I-212. If....................................his friend is approved then we will send off for an I-212, until then.
I would rather us focus on trying to move to Canada, even if it takes a few years thats fine by me, it gives us more time to figure out where we want to live in Canada. He has enough points and there have been quite a few companies offering relocation packages so we'll see what fate has in store for us.
1 question though for Folinskyinla since you appear to be a lawyer having to deal with this crazy system, the 601 and i-212 seem the same to me, do you have to submit both or is the i-212 for just an immigration violation for working illegally?
Noorah I did get help and advice, I have thanked people for the advice.
I guess I should persevere and have a more American "Never surrender never give up" attitude but its not worth my happiness for all the stress and misery.
They change the goal post everytime you deal with them, it's a gamble when dealing with them. I don't like gambling my money away. They tell you submit a certain form and then you do that and then say oh well you should have also submitted this other form as well. Its laughable.
It has put me off him going for an Immigration Visa. I just want to try and have it so he can visit the states again so we can spend time together with my Grandma and not be apart.
I plan to just wait and see if his friend gets his I-212 approved, he had applied as well for a spousal visa and was turned down and told to send off a I-212. If....................................his friend is approved then we will send off for an I-212, until then.
I would rather us focus on trying to move to Canada, even if it takes a few years thats fine by me, it gives us more time to figure out where we want to live in Canada. He has enough points and there have been quite a few companies offering relocation packages so we'll see what fate has in store for us.
1 question though for Folinskyinla since you appear to be a lawyer having to deal with this crazy system, the 601 and i-212 seem the same to me, do you have to submit both or is the i-212 for just an immigration violation for working illegally?
Mr. F. might or might not answer you - you had no way of knowing this, but sometimes it seems that if a question is directed specifically to a lawyer, as a lawyer, for them to reply might imply a attorney/client relationship that doesn't exist.
So if he does not, please don't be offended (he might be able to reply).
From what I can tell though, the 601 and I-212 do not seem to be the same to me.
Someone may correct me if I'm wrong, but the I-212 just asks permission to come back. The I-601 is (I believe) generally used for a form of immigrant visa, and must prove extreme hardship to the USC spouse etc.
I believe Mr. F referred to one case where they filed both forms. I suspect it isn't that both are required, just that your odds are better with two things, that one or the other will be approved. Again, someone can call me wrong here.
As far as I know, the 601 is only submitted after the visa is denied. If you know it will be though, you can have it prepared in advance.
I know you aren't happy with the idea, but sometimes you can't fight city hall - in your shoes, I personally would give in and get a lawyer to do it. This seems a somewhat complicated situation - and aggravating though it is, I personally would go for the best odds of success. Otherwise you might be throwing more money away.
Just because your friend does/doesn't get his I-212 approved doesn't mean the same will happen to you.
Of course, it's all your decision, those are just my thoughts.
p.s. only if you care to say - how did your husband get "caught" and deported? I'm wondering how he even came to their notice.
Jul 31st 2008, 10:21 pm
#66
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Re: I-212 Help please hubby had been deported
I plan to just wait and see if his friend gets his I-212 approved, he had applied as well for a spousal visa and was turned down and told to send off a I-212. If....................................his friend is approved then we will send off for an I-212, until then.
I would rather us focus on trying to move to Canada, even if it takes a few years thats fine by me, it gives us more time to figure out where we want to live in Canada. He has enough points and there have been quite a few companies offering relocation packages so we'll see what fate has in store for us.
~ Jenney
Jul 31st 2008, 10:26 pm
#67
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Re: I-212 Help please hubby had been deported
http://italy.usembassy.gov/dhs/uscis/services/I-601.asp
Form I-601 - Application for a Waiver of Ground of Inadmissibility
Some persons who have been found ineligible for a visa under the Immigration and Nationality Act (INA) may file an Application for Waiver of Ground of Inadmissibility (Form I-601). Findings of ineligibility are usually made by a Consular Officer during an immigrant visa interview. This application and “evidence of extreme hardship” are filed with the Consular Officer at the Embassy where the beneficiary of the petition applied for the visa.
Form I-212 - Application for Permission to Reapply for Admission into the U.S. After Deportation or Removal
Some Individuals who have been deported or removed from the United States, or who departed the United States after the expiration of a voluntary departure order will also need to file Form I-212 Application for Permission to Reapply for Admission into the U.S. After Deportation or Removal. This application is filed with the Consular Officer at the Embassy where the beneficiary of the petition applied for the visa. The applicant may attach a statement giving the facts that he/she believes USCIS should consider in making a decision on the application. The applicant may attach evidence in support of the statement.
After reading this, the I-601 seems the way to go. Since he has a ban, he is inadmissible, period. The I-601 deals with waiving that inadmissibility. I could be wrong but that's how it reads to me.
~ Jenney
Jul 31st 2008, 10:28 pm
#68
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Re: I-212 Help please hubby had been deported
I did a quick Google and found the following, on the website for the US Consulate in Italy:
http://italy.usembassy.gov/dhs/uscis/services/I-601.asp
Form I-601 - Application for a Waiver of Ground of Inadmissibility
Some persons who have been found ineligible for a visa under the Immigration and Nationality Act (INA) may file an Application for Waiver of Ground of Inadmissibility (Form I-601). Findings of ineligibility are usually made by a Consular Officer during an immigrant visa interview. This application and “evidence of extreme hardship” are filed with the Consular Officer at the Embassy where the beneficiary of the petition applied for the visa.
Form I-212 - Application for Permission to Reapply for Admission into the U.S. After Deportation or Removal
Some Individuals who have been deported or removed from the United States, or who departed the United States after the expiration of a voluntary departure order will also need to file Form I-212 Application for Permission to Reapply for Admission into the U.S. After Deportation or Removal. This application is filed with the Consular Officer at the Embassy where the beneficiary of the petition applied for the visa. The applicant may attach a statement giving the facts that he/she believes USCIS should consider in making a decision on the application. The applicant may attach evidence in support of the statement.
After reading this, the I-601 seems the way to go. Since he has a ban, he is inadmissible, period. The I-601 deals with waiving that inadmissibility. I could be wrong but that's how it reads to me.
~ Jenney
http://italy.usembassy.gov/dhs/uscis/services/I-601.asp
Form I-601 - Application for a Waiver of Ground of Inadmissibility
Some persons who have been found ineligible for a visa under the Immigration and Nationality Act (INA) may file an Application for Waiver of Ground of Inadmissibility (Form I-601). Findings of ineligibility are usually made by a Consular Officer during an immigrant visa interview. This application and “evidence of extreme hardship” are filed with the Consular Officer at the Embassy where the beneficiary of the petition applied for the visa.
Form I-212 - Application for Permission to Reapply for Admission into the U.S. After Deportation or Removal
Some Individuals who have been deported or removed from the United States, or who departed the United States after the expiration of a voluntary departure order will also need to file Form I-212 Application for Permission to Reapply for Admission into the U.S. After Deportation or Removal. This application is filed with the Consular Officer at the Embassy where the beneficiary of the petition applied for the visa. The applicant may attach a statement giving the facts that he/she believes USCIS should consider in making a decision on the application. The applicant may attach evidence in support of the statement.
After reading this, the I-601 seems the way to go. Since he has a ban, he is inadmissible, period. The I-601 deals with waiving that inadmissibility. I could be wrong but that's how it reads to me.
~ Jenney
Jul 31st 2008, 10:38 pm
#69
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Re: I-212 Help please hubby had been deported
Well this friend was doing the same thing with my husband along with 7 other brits when they were deported.
He has only been married 2 years to his American wife and I believe the way they handle his will be the same as my husbands. I may be wrong but it's for the same incident.
Maybe consulting is work, at the end of the day it was a mistake, which I find odd considering before he went there he was required to get approve by the US military before being allowed to look at their planes otherwise he never would have left the UK. 10 years for something like this seems too harsh. Maybe I could understand 5 years, but the fact that they told us then to appeal the ban by filing a B-2 visa which they denied again seems too harsh.
We have only until Jan 09 to continue with the Immigration Visa as I had put it on hold for a bit as I was waiting t o have knee surgery and other bits.
I would rather start all over again though with Canada, and I already have a Canada Immigration consultant to sort our applications for us. I am sure it wil be a stressful process but neither of us is Canadian so we have to respect the way their system works.
So its not a case that we cannot afford it to help with the U.S. visa, it is simply my belief that they just keep messing us about, tell us the wrong info, and kick us when we are down. Being American myself I guess I don't respect the system because I see how it's red tape and BS lets down myself and other Americans and that just pisses me off.
I have spend probably $200 alone on calls to the premium hotline at the US embassy London to try and make sure we did everything right only to be told wrong information time and again, if they do not have staff that know what they are saying they shouldn't have a number, should they?
My husbands interview the other week was a joke, they never even looked over all the documents we provided, never gave him a chance to really speak or ask questions, didn't say what our options were, and made him feel rushed and treated like a criminal. It's just not worth it.
Good luck to those who can stomach the nightmare. If Canada immigration turns into the same kind of nightmare we will just forget it, move to Scotland.
I can deal with some misery, some hard work, some patience but within reason.
He has only been married 2 years to his American wife and I believe the way they handle his will be the same as my husbands. I may be wrong but it's for the same incident.
Maybe consulting is work, at the end of the day it was a mistake, which I find odd considering before he went there he was required to get approve by the US military before being allowed to look at their planes otherwise he never would have left the UK. 10 years for something like this seems too harsh. Maybe I could understand 5 years, but the fact that they told us then to appeal the ban by filing a B-2 visa which they denied again seems too harsh.
We have only until Jan 09 to continue with the Immigration Visa as I had put it on hold for a bit as I was waiting t o have knee surgery and other bits.
I would rather start all over again though with Canada, and I already have a Canada Immigration consultant to sort our applications for us. I am sure it wil be a stressful process but neither of us is Canadian so we have to respect the way their system works.
So its not a case that we cannot afford it to help with the U.S. visa, it is simply my belief that they just keep messing us about, tell us the wrong info, and kick us when we are down. Being American myself I guess I don't respect the system because I see how it's red tape and BS lets down myself and other Americans and that just pisses me off.
I have spend probably $200 alone on calls to the premium hotline at the US embassy London to try and make sure we did everything right only to be told wrong information time and again, if they do not have staff that know what they are saying they shouldn't have a number, should they?
My husbands interview the other week was a joke, they never even looked over all the documents we provided, never gave him a chance to really speak or ask questions, didn't say what our options were, and made him feel rushed and treated like a criminal. It's just not worth it.
Good luck to those who can stomach the nightmare. If Canada immigration turns into the same kind of nightmare we will just forget it, move to Scotland.
I can deal with some misery, some hard work, some patience but within reason.
Jul 31st 2008, 10:53 pm
#70
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Re: I-212 Help please hubby had been deported
I often have to get pedantic in talking "immigration & nationality act" which most people find to be complicated and incomprehensible. Take a look at my post at the top of the general immigration forum to get an idea.
Actually, there is no waiver needed for unauthorized employment. For example, lets say an F-1 student is here on "Duration of Status" and is found working illegally. Since she was here on a visa, she gets a removal hearing before an immigration judge and obtains "voluntary deprature." So, she has not been "removed", she has committed no fraud, and she has not "overstayed" her time of admission. She would have no legal bar to getting a new visa and coming back!
Now, if one is formally removed by either an IJ or as a VW removed without a hearing, then the very fact of the formal removal causes a bar to kick in -- which can be 5, 10, 20 years or forever. The I-212 is for advance permission to come back DESPITE having departed pursuant to an order of removal.
There are also various bars to coming in -- fraud, disease, criminal history, overstay, yada-da-de-da. If a waiver is available, then you file the I-601.
BTW, the I-601 is filed for an alien abroad when the visa is refused. In contrast, the default for filing of an I-212 is with the DHS office who enforced the departure [I think CBP does it now, maybe CIS, but I really don't know]. The exception to this default rule is when a visa is denied because of the prior removal.
Clear as mud, I'm sure. But then I didn't write the Immigration & Nationality Act. And often, neither have the personnel of the Dark Forces. I will admit it keeps me busy.
Jul 31st 2008, 10:57 pm
#71
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Re: I-212 Help please hubby had been deported
Actually, the exact definition of "work" or "employment" is a matter of dispute. However, when one is here on the visa waiver -- the DHS is judge, jury and executioner all combined in one.
And I sure that everyone feels safer and that the national security of the United States has been protected. Well, maybe not everyone, but the Dark Forces certainly feel that way. Remember that they don't think like you and I.
Jul 31st 2008, 11:07 pm
#72
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Re: I-212 Help please hubby had been deported
the visa waiver -- the DHS is judge, jury and executioner all combined in one
Aug 1st 2008, 12:15 am
#73
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Re: I-212 Help please hubby had been deported
There are plenty of people who do the waiver(s) by themselves, I am usually wary of suggesting a Lawyer is required, but in this case probably yes.
This thread reminds me of AA, you have to admit the problem to find a cure.
UK Lawyers tend to be expensive, youy could start here www.visacentral.net.
Amusingly most of her business is from Mexico, big numbers, but the principals are the same. Its all really an English Comprehension test. London is considered one of the easier Consulates.
I would tend to assume that any one bright enough to be sent to the US to work on military contracts is bright enough to realsise that the VWP would not work. I wonder what he said at the PoE?
This thread reminds me of AA, you have to admit the problem to find a cure.
UK Lawyers tend to be expensive, youy could start here www.visacentral.net.
Amusingly most of her business is from Mexico, big numbers, but the principals are the same. Its all really an English Comprehension test. London is considered one of the easier Consulates.
I would tend to assume that any one bright enough to be sent to the US to work on military contracts is bright enough to realsise that the VWP would not work. I wonder what he said at the PoE?
Aug 1st 2008, 12:27 am
#74
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Re: I-212 Help please hubby had been deported
There are plenty of people who do the waiver(s) by themselves, I am usually wary of suggesting a Lawyer is required, but in this case probably yes.
This thread reminds me of AA, you have to admit the problem to find a cure.
UK Lawyers tend to be expensive, youy could start here www.visacentral.net.
Amusingly most of her business is from Mexico, big numbers, but the principals are the same. Its all really an English Comprehension test. London is considered one of the easier Consulates.
I would tend to assume that any one bright enough to be sent to the US to work on military contracts is bright enough to realsise that the VWP would not work. I wonder what he said at the PoE?
This thread reminds me of AA, you have to admit the problem to find a cure.
UK Lawyers tend to be expensive, youy could start here www.visacentral.net.
Amusingly most of her business is from Mexico, big numbers, but the principals are the same. Its all really an English Comprehension test. London is considered one of the easier Consulates.
I would tend to assume that any one bright enough to be sent to the US to work on military contracts is bright enough to realsise that the VWP would not work. I wonder what he said at the PoE?
I am wondering what happened, but I think she does not care to say (fair enough of course).
Aug 1st 2008, 12:40 am
#75
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Re: I-212 Help please hubby had been deported
Well I will get some quotes I guess that couldn't hurt, I just cringe at the thought of wasting money on a no win case.
Its a very long complicated story bottom line is my husband was lied to by the UK company and the U.S. company he was out there helping, it's done now regardless of the how and why, I am not disputing that with the US Embassy. I disagree with the outcome but thats a losing battle so I am not even going there.
For ease of life we have just conceded we did something wrong.
Happens to lots of people, now we are just trying to move past that and get to the next stage....what to do next to get past it.
I just do not understand why when I asked what we needed to do next the embassy told me to apply with a B-2 visa when really it should have been a I-212. Its a joke.
Its a very long complicated story bottom line is my husband was lied to by the UK company and the U.S. company he was out there helping, it's done now regardless of the how and why, I am not disputing that with the US Embassy. I disagree with the outcome but thats a losing battle so I am not even going there.
For ease of life we have just conceded we did something wrong.
Happens to lots of people, now we are just trying to move past that and get to the next stage....what to do next to get past it.
I just do not understand why when I asked what we needed to do next the embassy told me to apply with a B-2 visa when really it should have been a I-212. Its a joke.