ian-mstm

With respect, you're now changing your story. Earlier, you specifically wrote, "Normally an intramural teacher would be paid (not a lot, but paid) and so I have explicitly sought a background check as a volunteer. I have waived the offer of payment, but am I about to break the rules?" If you waive the offer of payment, then the position is normally paid... and you are not allowed to "work for free".

Working for free is not the same as volunteering.

Ian

Steve_

Not necessarily, you can be a passive director. All CBP care about is, are you working. Filling in an 1120 for example is not considered working.

What I would suggest though instead of being a director is being a shareholder, removes doubt.

What I've seen before is people buying, say 50% of a small business, they don't have any direct involvement other than ownership, or the business establishes a foreign payroll and they only get paid while they're abroad. Or receive dividends only.

But sooner or later a CBP inspector will ask where you get your money from, they don't care about the structure you've used as long as you're not working.

Steve_

After Katrina there were Canadians who volunteered to go down and help with clean up and rebuilding and CBP denied them entry, because carpentry for example is usually a paid job.

Are you working? If the answer is "yes", then you cannot do it as H-4.

sailorman

Thanks for this input - another example of the law being an ass - the letter being applied rather than the intent.

But with 100 senators all clamouring for your vote and wanting to get their name on a bill then you get what you ask for ....

tht

I always wonder where that line is on this topic, people always give the example of parents visiting saying they are helping as being a red flag because nannies are paid to look after children so it would be seen as work. Do most people have nannies, if not that kind of shifts the thinking, then its becomes does anyone get paid to do something, if so its work. Which would make you have to think about a lot of other activities. Would a tourist visiting on a self drive self catering holiday be "working", people are paid to drive people around and people are paid to cook for others, and not just in restaurants, people have personal chefs at home...

rebs

I wonder about that line too... for example, if someone on an H4 does a bit of decorating or DIY at home instead of hiring a painter or carpenter etc, is that work?

Noorah101

One doesn't usually pay one's self to do those kinds of things, though. Also might depend if that is your line of work. A friend who helps another friend pick out a paint color for her living room, as a 1-time suggestion, doesn't seem like work. But someone who is an interior designer by trade, who offers to help many people decorate their homes, does sound like work.

Rene

tht

Its still a fine line, in the grandparent example most USC don't pay their grandparents to help with their grandchildren either.

Noorah101

I agree. But in that example, you could possibly pay a nanny.

Rene

tht

But if the line is that "you could possibly pay" someone to do something, you could basically classify anything as work.... it becomes a comedy sketch...

CBP Officer in Vegas: hi what is the purpose of your visit?
UKC holidaymaker's: here on vacation / to get married in the Elvis chapel...
CBP Officer in Vegas: Do you intend to consummate the marriage?
UKC holidaymaker's: Yes
CBP Officer in Vegas: You can't do that, you are depriving the workers at the bunny ranch of employment / doing something they are paid to do (I believe legally in NV), you have to wait till you go home...

sherbert

What about being a volunteer board member of a non-profit organisation outside of the US?

I don't understand this passive investment thing really. If you are putting your efforts into something as a volunteer (in a position that has never been offered as a paid one) for a non profit-making organisation is this really considered to be 'active investment'?

ian-mstm

I just want to say that this is the most creative bit of writing that I've seen in this forum these many years! Karma on its way!

Ian

Noorah101

Being a board member of ANY company, wherever in the world, is OK, as long as you are not performing any work for the company while you are physically in the USA.

Take the word volunteer out of your sentence, because I don't think a position titled "Board Member"would ever be a true volunteer position. Most people would normally get paid for that.

Passive investment is easy. You put up the money and perhaps reap some benefit such as dividends, but you don't actually do any physical work for the business.

As I said, true volunteer jobs are something like packing boxes at the local food bank. Once you get into a corporate atmosphere, you won't really find volunteer positions.

Rene

tht

I am on the board of the condo I own along with 4 other owners, none are paid, the bylaws specifically state that no one is paid, and this is not a charity, that said it is also not a for profit business.

In general you are right though, most non execs are paid to be on boards unless it is for a charity.

tht

Thanks Ian. I have had similarly ridiculous (but unrelated) conversations with CBP officers myself so I do have some inspiration...