Andrew Defaria

bunny001 wrote:

    > Hi,
    > This is Bunny that started this thread,first off thank you so much to
    > everyone that has posted so far here!
    > And specifically to Andrew D,what the heck is the point of you
    > attacking Mr Udell??????

I wasn't attacking him personally nor individually, I was merely stating
my opinion about lawyers.

    > Ive been reading this forum for ages,and I think I can freely speak
    > for so many people that arent even following this thread,the attorneys
    > that post here have been a god send to SO MANY people...

I appreciate them being here too. That doesn't mean, however, that they
are god.

    > They dont get paid for their time here,if Mr Udell takes a case here
    > or there,good for him,he has worked hard to build a rapport and trust
    > with people that post here,and I would also feel confident that if the
    > fees added up for the few cases that he did take here were amortized
    > over the hours of free advice and help he gives here,youd have a
    > pretty sheepish look on your face right now..Sorry for bantering on
    > all,but this guy has struck a nerve with me..

I said nothing regarding Mr. Udall taking cases from here.

    > Ill also be the first to say that Ive had HORRIBLE experiences with
    > lawyers,in fact a bad lawyer completely devasted my life 13 years
    > ago,much to long to explain here,and I do wish there were better ways
    > of knowing who the good guys were..There just isnt and I think using
    > good judegement and just doing your level best to ask around and check
    > things
    > out yourself is important..

Agreed.

    > At the end of every deal I work on,I know I put the clients interests
    > on both ends ahead of what i would make,and believe me sometimes its
    > very hard to keep that frame of mind when the wolfs at the door for
    > every bill you have...But a 1300 hundred pound horse can really do
    > physical and mental damge to a person if its the wrong match ie
    > beginner and wrong horse,and finacial damage to a breeder if I didnt
    > do my homework..When we play with peoples lives and safety its our
    > responsibilty to take that seriously...People pay me to think ahead
    > for them,which is much like the case with an attorney,and I do have
    > all the same fears as many people, we have thought to go around an
    > attorney all together because of the bad experiences,however i know
    > this is a life altering decision,and if I mess it up,well my future is
    > really is at stake..

What are you trying to say with all this banter? I never accused Mr.
Udall of not having his clients interests at heart. I merely said that
if the screw up happens at the USCIS or the embassy then that is beyond
his, or anybody else's for that matter, control. This is demonstrably
true. Now if you disagree with that then kindly tell me how.

    > Maybe we should think nefore we speak,what do ya think Andrew DeFaria?????

So should you my dear.. Like I am fond of saying "50% of all <whatever>
are from the bottom 1/2 of their class", another plain fact that some
try to argue against. I agree with you, you cannot simply look up a
lawyer in the phonebook and expect that they will be a good one. I'd add
to that that there is also no guarantee that a high priced lawyer is a
good one - just high priced. And getting a "referral" from the AILA only
guarantees that the lawyer referred is an AILA member, not necessarily a
good attorney. I'd say that the circumstances of your case are far more
important that just a good lawyer. IOW even a good lawyer will not be
able to work magic if you're extremely guilty (and have left lots of
evidence of your guild) in the first place.

As your story (snipped) related even the "experts" screw up and/or
appear to have little knowledge of what they purport (i.e. sell you)
they have. It is indeed buyer beware however it is also extremely
difficult to know if the lawyer is good or not because to do so you need
a pretty good background in the law in the first place!
--
Everyone has the right to be stupid, but your abusing the privilege.

Maryanne Kehoe

Oh BTW, *many thanks* for your postings here------I am learning a
LOT!!!

This board should be required reading for any K-3's out there (I've even
got hubby reading it.)








Re: Finding a lawyer

Group: alt.visa.us.marriage-based Date: Sun, Nov 23, 2003, 5:01pm
(EST+5) From: member4043@british_expats.com (Folinskyinla)
Originally posted by Maryanne Kehoe
Sorry....self-employed for the past 11 years (and besides, I was
joking!)
Re: Finding a lawyer
Group: alt.visa.us.marriage-based Date: Sat, Nov 22, 2003, 11:07pm
(EST+5) From: member1851@british_expats.com (meauxna)
Originally posted by Maryanne Kehoe
Next week is a holiday---I am ORDERING you to take the next week off!
I'd guess that you've never been in business for yourself. Time off is
not always an option afforded the self-employed.
Union employees, however...
--
Posted via
http://britishexpats.com/http://britishexpats.com
Hi Maryanne:
No apology needed. I took it precisely that tone. Besides, the younger
of my two offspring will be in town and I would like to spend some time
with her.
--
Certified Specialist
 Immigration &amp; Nat. Law
 Cal. Bar Board of Legal Specialization
Posted via http://britishexpats.com

Dad of 3

Andrew: While some lawyers may feel they are God....most of us know we are not.

While you are right, no DIYer or lawyer can fix something that is truly out of their hands. However, the advantage to having a lawyer when there is a screw up or mistake (and one that does primarily immigration work) is that, based on their personal experiences in past cases, they know how to do it and they can do it quickly.....and very often, they have built a "working relationship" with people within the agency that will give the lawyer the time of day that they won't give to a member of the public.

Certainly not all cases need a lawyer. But there are those that do. As for Matt, compared to what other attorneys charge to this immigration work...he is a bargain and from reaading his thoughts in the various posts on this NG, it is NOT due to the quality of his work or legal abilities.

As for AILA, while I do not belong, it is my understanding that they are a very powerful force in the immigration world. I dont know if membership is automatic as long as you pay the dues or they go through an approval process. What I can tell you is that when a strong group starts getting involved in a specific case, it gets the attention of the agency. So while there may be occasions when an attorney or an AILA attorney can't fix a USCIS screw up.....the are often times when they can correct the mistake in a heartbeat thereby saving the client weeks or months of wait to be with their loved one. For many folks, me included, that would be worth every penny of the fee I would pay.

Maryanne Kehoe

I would be curious to know if AILA membership carries weight with BCIS,
versus just being an "immigration attorney."






Re: Finding a lawyer

Group: alt.visa.us.marriage-based Date: Sun, Nov 23, 2003, 7:33pm
(EST+5) From: member16779@british_expats.com (Dad of 3)
Andrew: While some lawyers may feel they are God....most of us know
we are not.
While you are right, no DIYer or lawyer can fix something that is truly
out of their hands. However, the advantage to having a lawyer when there
is a screw up or mistake (and one that does primarily immigration work)
is that, based on their personal experiences in past cases, they know
how to do it and they can do it quickly.....and very often, they have
built a "working relationship" with people within the agency that will
give the lawyer the time of day that they won't give to a member of the
public.
Certainly not all cases need a lawyer. But there are those that do. As
for Matt, compared to what other attorneys charge to this immigration
work...he is a bargain and from reaading his thoughts in the various
posts on this NG, it is NOT due to the quality of his work or legal
abilities.
As for AILA, while I do not belong, it is my understanding that they are
a very powerful force in the immigration world. I dont know if
membership is automatic as long as you pay the dues or they go through
an approval process. What I can tell you is that when a strong group
starts getting involved in a specific case, it gets the attention of the
agency. So while there may be occasions when an attorney or an AILA
attorney can't fix a USCIS screw up.....the are often times when they
can correct the mistake in a heartbeat thereby saving the client weeks
or months of wait to be with their loved one. For many folks, me
included, that would be worth every penny of the fee I would pay.
--
Posted via http://britishexpats.com

Andrew Defaria

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maryanne kehoe wrote:<br>
<br>
Is this your post?<br>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="[email protected]">I
would be curious to know if AILA membership carries weight with BCIS,
versus just being an "immigration attorney." <br>
</blockquote>
Or is the following? I find your quoting style misleading.<br>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="[email protected]">Re:
Finding a lawyer <br>
<br>
Group: alt.visa.us.marriage-based Date: Sun, Nov 23, 2003, 7:33pm<br>
(EST+5) From: <a class="moz-txt-link-abbreviated" href="mailto:member16779@british_expats.com">member16779@british_expats.com</a> (Dad&nbsp;of&nbsp;3) <br>
Andrew: While some lawyers may feel they are God....most of us know we
are not. <br>
</blockquote>
I did not say the above. Please don't misquote me. It only weakens your
argument. I said:<br>
<blockquote>I appreciate them being here too. That doesn't mean,
however, that they are god.<br>
</blockquote>
This in no way implies that lawyers think they are god. Why then do you
put such words into my mouth?<br>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="[email protected]">While
you are right, no DIYer or lawyer can fix something that is truly out
of their hands. However, the advantage to having a lawyer when there is
a screw up or mistake (and one that does primarily immigration work) is
that, based on their personal experiences in past cases, they know how
to do it and they can do it quickly.....and very often, they have built
a "working relationship" with people within the agency that will give
the lawyer the time of day that they won't give to a member of the
public. <br>
</blockquote>
Well #1 they shouldn't. The agency is supposed to be working for us,
the public, not the lawyer population. But that aside, it still does
not negate what I said. If a DIY files then the USCIS screws up there
is nothing stopping him from retaining a good immigration attorney at
that time. Even one that has "a 'working relationship' with the people
within the agency". The net difference between the DIY who filed
initially and the non DIY who retained a lawyer to start with is that
the later will be a bit poorer. That's it. That's the only difference.<br>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="[email protected]">Certainly
not all cases need a lawyer. But there are those that do. As for Matt,
compared to what other attorneys charge to this immigration work...he
is a bargain and from reaading his thoughts in the various posts on
this NG, it is NOT due to the quality of his work or legal abilities. <br>
</blockquote>
I have much admiration for Matt. I think he's a good immigration
attorney at a reasonable price. Still doesn't negate the facts.<br>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="[email protected]">As
for AILA, while I do not belong, it is my understanding that they are a
very powerful force in the immigration world. I dont know if membership
is automatic as long as you pay the dues or they go through an approval
process. What I can tell you is that when a strong group starts getting
involved in a specific case, it gets the attention of the agency. </blockquote>
No doubt that AILA has influence. However, again, when you call the
AILA there is no guarantee that they lawyer they point you to is the
one you need.<br>
<blockquote type="cite"
cite="[email protected]">So
while there may be occasions when an attorney or an AILA attorney can't
fix a USCIS screw up.....the are often times when they can correct the
mistake in a heartbeat thereby saving the client weeks or months of
wait to be with their loved one. For many folks, me included, that
would be worth every penny of the fee I would pay. <br>
</blockquote>
My point is that you have about as much a chance of just getting an
average or below average immigration attorney who will not save you
anything in time or money. An AILA referral only guarantees that you'll
be pointed to an immigration attorney who is an AILA member. My
experience bears this out for me. YMMV.<br>
<br>
-- <br>
The more you complain, the longer God makes you live.<br>
</body>
</html>

Maryanne Kehoe

Andrew, my question was just on the AILA membership, the rest of the
post you quoted was not mine.




Re: Finding a lawyer

Group: alt.visa.us.marriage-based Date: Sun, Nov 23, 2003, 6:22pm
(EST-3) From: [email protected] (Andrew DeFaria)
Re: Finding a lawyer
Group: alt.vis
a.us.marriage-based Date: Sun, Nov 23, 2003, 6:22pm (EST-3) From:
[email protected] (Andrew DeFaria)

Matthew Udall

Nonsense. For example, the I-129f instructions don’t specifically ask for the international fiancée’s birth record, and if one did not submit this and received an RFE for it, one might call that a USCIS screw up. A good lawyer with experience will understand the benefit of submitting this documentation (a number of good reasons) even though the instructions don’t call for it.

But as far as “other� types of USCIS or Consulate screw ups that don’t have anything to do with my submission (say they just lost something), you are correct in repeating what I’ve said in the past… namely that the USCIS or Consulate can and do screw up quite often (judging from the posts we read here about this). I think you have a tremendous grasp of the obvious, and if I was trying to be sarcastic about this, I’d say, “No Shirt, Shitlock! :-).

What you fail to apparently take into consideration is the things an advocate with experience and contacts can do to get the problem fixed as quickly as possible. Perhaps your self-proclaimed bad experiences with attorneys in the past has tainted your outlook and is why you can’t seem to understand this.

Matthew Udall

An attorney does have control over how he or she prepares the submission, thus perhaps avoiding many of the beginner mistakes or avoiding more subtle problems. The attorney also has control over how he or she addresses USCIS or Consulate screw ups.

If the attorney is retained “after� the USCIS screws up, the USCIS is “not� going to acknowledge the attorney’s inquiry (when trying to fix the situation) until a signed G-28 has been presented. That might take a few days to obtain (and perhaps much longer to try to get it lined up with the DIYer's file that is already somewhere at a Service Center), and one might even have a difficult time finding an attorney willing to jump into the middle of a DIY case.

I usually won’t. A snip from an earlier post in this thread addresses this issue.

>Plus, if you are talking about bringing in an attorney only "after" the USCIS screws up, good luck finding a good one that will jump into the case. I usually won't for a few good reasons. Before the USCIS will talk to me about a case (or even look at a fax I might send about a case) I first have to somehow get a G-28 signed by the client and somehow lined up with the clients file already somewhere at the Service Center. But before I'm willing to sign "my name" onto a DIY'ers case, I first would have to examine every form and every bit of evidence the DIY'er submitted. I would also have to get to know their facts and unique situation to make sure I did not get sucked into a "dirty" case where falsehoods, material misrepresentations, or flat out wrong materials were submitted with the case (honest mistakes by the DIY’er). My license to practice law would be just as “on the line� for a case I prepared as it would be for a DIY’ers case I jumped into the middle of, and quite frankly I think it would be unwise to agree to represent someone without first determining what I’m getting into before agreeing to take on the situation. And I’m not going to do all of that work for free, so I don’t think some would want to pay my fee for me to try to jump in to fix a USCIS screw up.

But if they come to me at the outset for my flat rate fee, I have every incentive to do the job right the first time and the client does not pay me a penny more when I have to spend additional hours fixing a USCIS or Consulate screw up.

Bottom line is that every attorney or do-it-yourselfer is going to bring a different level of experience to their work or to a given case. If it were me and I was hiring an attorney, I’d probably want to pick one with lots of experience with I-129f and AOS cases, one that can answer my questions and can demonstrate a thorough knowledge of the common and not so common issues that can come into play (issue spotting), one with contacts to use should the need arise, and one with a reasonable price.

Matthew Udall

I don’t care how other attorneys look to you or anybody else. I’m just telling you about what “I� do with my cases to get them through the system as quickly as possible. From reading the group and from common knowledge, its not too much of a stretch to understand that not every attorney is going to bring the same level of experience and expertise to any given case. Heck even most AILA members I know focus on the bigger ticket employment cases, and I’ll bet I’ve done more fiancée and AOS work that most AILA members (certainly more than the ones focusing on the employment cases).

You on the other hand have made it pretty clear that you have had bad experiences with attorneys in the past, and you seem to be the one posting with that agenda in mind.

Zippy, Zippy Zippy; I do what I can to fix the USCIS screw ups as quickly as possible in addition to what you have said about putting together a submission free from errors. Do you have a posting from me saying that I am able to keep the USCIS from screwing up? If not, please fill in this blank, "shut the _ up".

Matthew Udall

This is true. If I were a God, I would grant to you what the scarecrow desperately wanted :-).

Folinskyinla

Hi Matt:

Andy may have deserved that, but be nice.

There have been many [analogy to part of human anatomy], often in "black dresses" who have trained me to hone that skill over the years.

Matthew Udall

You are correct and I should be nicer. Apparently attorneys have traumatized this lad in the past, so its no wonder he's biased.

Matthew Udall

I too say that the USCIS or Consulate can screw up after the case has been submitted. A good attorney is going to immediately go to bat for his or her client and try to resolve those problems.

CharlieS

Tossing my little bit in here (said with a sense of dread)
Personally I think that lawyers are a good thing, certainly in circumstances such as immigration, oh and when you break the law
I have jaded views on immigration lawyers purely because the lawyer I originally hired not only didn't go to bat for me, but I think she was actually trying to throw the game altogether. Even though this has caused me a lot of grief and heartache, it has not made me think that all lawyers are the same. As I speak I am going through the motions of seeking legal advice and quite possibily expect to be retaining a second lawyer to complete my case.

The point being, that all should not be tarred with the same brush (I've been dying to use that line for years)

Matthew Udall

I don’t really think so (just like a judge or officer is not going to care where an attorney went to law school). Instead, I think being able to zero in on an issue, treating the officer with respect and professionalism, not flaming them with anger, etc. would be the way to go (persuasive or at least getting right to it and not wasting the officer’s time) regardless if this is coming from an AILA member or an attorney who is not an AILA member. I think it is sort of an art form, effectively dealing with the USCIS or Consulate officers.

Of course, when I had to send a fax to the ACD of the family based product line at the TSC for a case where they screwed up, I addressed it to his name personally and mentioned the nice conversation he and I had one-on-one during the AILA liaison meeting last fall (thanking him for the time he gave me one-on-one while the other attorneys in the crowd were off taking a tour or paying attention to the head of the product line that processes the employment cases). Of the couple of dozen (or fewer) attorneys across the U.S. who bothered to fly to Texas last fall to attend, I was the only one who sought out Jack for this type of conversation, and I got to pick his brain about I-129f issues at the TSC for 10 to 15 minutes.

I’d do the same (address the officer by name) if I had to Fax or write Sadie at the NSC (as she and I had some quality one-on-one question and answer time when I was at the NSC last fall). She’s the head of the family product line at the NSC, and after she gave her speech at the NSC meeting last fall, I was the only attorney (of around 150 to 200 who were in attendance) to jump up to follow her outside to have this sort of 10 to 15 minute conversation with her and two of her top ranking staffers (her speech was very short and she had not addressed “any� I-129f issues in her speech…. Probably because most AILA members were only interested in the employment cases… again, those are the big-ticket cases, not the little K-1 and AOS cases).

Why do most AILA members focus on the employment side? Well, that same employer/company is going to keep coming back to the attorney over and over again for future employees and most attorneys charge a handsome sum for H-1B and even more for labor certifications cases. But with a family based case, once its done… its over and unless the U.S. spouse is a polygamist, he or she won’t be coming back for a second K-1 or AOS case [just kidding about the polygamous part… meant to illustrate the point that family cases don’t usually lead to another case, than another like what happens on the employment side].

I don’t know if that helps or not (addressing the officers by name and mentioning the time we spent together), but I don’t think it hurts :-).