Octang Frye

There you go with the ad hominem attacks. Disappointing.
Perhaps, I should say those who can't make cogent arguments make childish, snide remarks.

Jerseygirl

.

fatbrit

There's nowhere to go with him since he stops dead when he gets to the illegal part. He's either not intellectual enough to realize, or is using this convenient scapegoat to mask his true feelings. Whichever, I don't really care.

But you are not going to get any further with the subject if you state illegals are illegal and that's all there is to it. There's no solution there. I merely point it out. The argument must be ad hominem at that stage because that's where the lack of progress derives from.

fatbrit

So should we give them driver licenses? It's almost political suicide when you suggest it! But the question must be asked!

Roland Hulme

There's no reason to! There's already an entirely legal way for illegal immigrants to register and insure a vehicle in most states.

Bank of America even offer mortgages and credit cards to undocumented aliens.

It's expensive and inconvenient, but entirely possible to live effectively within the law as an undocumented alien, aside from being illegal just by being there (and working illegally, too.)

The fact is, however, that most illegal immigrants ignore more than just immigration laws.

anotherlimey

Driver license databases are quite accurate (regarding address information), that's one reason I'd want them to have licenses - so they can be tracked down easier, and not necessarily for immigration law violation. But you'd never convince them that registering for a drivers license would be helpful for them.

fatbrit

Believe me, Bank of America isn't the only one. There's too much money in it for the financial (or any other industry for that matter) industry to ignore.

Dunno whether you've been following the goings-on of our jump-on-the-bandwagon, ranting sheriff, Arpaio, here in Phoenix. He's "out to get them", and our mayor has reported him to the civil rights unit of the FBI. There are some very serious issues being played out at the moment.

Doubt whether illegals ignore more laws than the other population when you cut out those that they ignore because they simply have no other choice. It always amuses me when our local Fox affiliate manages to find the crime of the day that actually was committed by an illegal -- I'm sure the bubbly flows freely in the "news"room.

fatbrit

The point surely is that we should regularize their status with comprehensive immigration reform at the federal level. Then all the driver license and other stuff falls into place. All the rest is just applying bandages over the gaping wound.

anotherlimey

You'd better start by convincing the general population that these cheap immigrants are what's propping up the economy.

fatbrit

If we can get them working through the illegal part, it'll be a start.

Roland Hulme

That's true. There's $50 BILLION in the US treasury from illegals paying tax using other people's social security numbers.

Songbird

couldn't agree more. This area has too long been a political football with scant regard for the real human cost. Families are torn apart, US citizens married to 'illegals' are forced to chose between keeping their family together and living in unsafe, high crime areas in Mexico, where being a USC is often enough reason to make you a target OR endure separation. People brought into this country as children or babies illegally by their parents are deemed to be accruing 'illegal presence' once they reach the age of 18 and are forced to return to their 'home' country if they want to become legal where they are subject to 3 or 10 bans ( dependent upon the amount of 'illegal' presence ) which have to be overcome via the waiver process? And lord forbid if they have left US soil for even a vacation and re-enter then they will find themselves ( due to recent "re-interpretation" of the 9c ruling which overturns the stated 'minor' exceptions ) facing a LIFETIME ban! Where else in US law apart from immigration is newly 'interpreted' legislation applied retroactively, based upon the issuance of memorandums regardless of the accepted practice. Thats the equivalent of doing something in 2007 that WASN'T a crime and in 2008 due to a govt dept memorandum re-interpreting the statues being then charged and found guilty! Sorry but whatever way you look at it immigration or not IMO legislation should not be applied retroactively, let alone be subject to change merely by a govt dept memorandum.

fatbrit

Sort of depends on what you mean by propping up the economy. They provide a cheap malleable workforce that benefits a few. It's decimated the American working classes.

Roland Hulme

I can't argue with that assessment. People always say 'illegals do the jobs Americans won't do' which isn't really true.

An illegal earning $25,000 a year cash-in-hand actually takes home more than a tax-payer earning $35,000 a year - so if an employer's willing to risk it, they can hire somebody for $10,000 less by paying them cash.

an illegal does a job an American can't afford to do - for the amount the illegal gets paid (not to mention employer doesn't need to worry about healthcare/benefits.)

anotherlimey

I think it benefits quite a few people - all those low cost workers in factories and on farms provide cheaper products and cheaper produce. The middle class benefits from low prices at the working class' expense.