Worsel

what makes you say that?

spanishfly

As I see it....

the US considers a Caution in the UK to be a conviction. Correct?

I was arrested at 17 and given at the time what i believed to be a caution (don't forget this was 11 years ago.

The Home Office website provides information with regards the arrest of anyone between the ages of 10 and 17 years old, which states that

"For youths ages 10 - 17 the options include

Reprimands

Final Warnings

Penalty notices for disorder"

Therefor i could not have been given a caution, so this is not viewed as a conviction in the states. Although i was arrested :-(

crg

Under the Federal Juvenile Delinquency Act ("FJDA"), 18 U.S.C. § 5031, a juvenile is defined as one who has not attained his eighteenth birthday.

fatbrit

Not wishing to put words in the "man's" mouth but his statement:
"Juvenile" offenses are generally considered under 16 by adoption of Federal criminal standards into immigration law.
seems uncharacteristically plain to simple old me!

spanishfly

I am currently waiting for a Police Certificate that should list all the information that is held on the PNC (Police National Computer System) about me, I am sure that this will list the arrest date which would prove my age at the time.

Ideally, after speaking with various agencies, Police Headquarters, CRB, and Data Protection some of these people (although their information most of the time at best was vague again) seemed to suggest that this would not even show up on the Police Certificate due to it being 11 years ago and also me being 17 at the time.

The only problem that i am stuck with then is do I HAVE to make the embassy aware of the arrest, if its not listed on the Police Certificate it is surely of no interest to the immigration department. I dunno. Totally ******* confused and annoyed with the whole process.

Fatbrit, although there seems to be some scorn and malice in your approach to your responses towards me (which are completely unwarranted) if you actually have a personal experience that you would like to share similair to mine, or know first hand of a case like mine that you can give me information on then please do not bother giving any further responses aimed at scaremongering.

Thanks.

crg

This is from the Foreign Affairs Manual (FAM). The embassy uses the FAM to process visa applications.

Game, set, and match my friend. :P

9 FAM 40.21(b) N2 JUVENILE DRUG CONVICTIONS 9 FAM 40.21(b) N2.1 Aliens Under Age 18 (TL:VISA-129; 11-09-1995) An alien who is convicted of or who admits to having committed or who admits committing acts which constitute the essential elements of a minor drug offense(s) relating to simple possession or use of controlled substances, i.e., offenses other than those involving trafficking, importing/exporting, or manufacturing (18 U.S.C.), shall not be considered ineligible for any visa based solely upon any such conviction or admission if the acts which are the subject of the conviction or admission occurred while the alien was under the age of eighteen. Specifically excluded from such treatment, however, are convictions or admissions relating to drug trafficking, importing/exporting, and manufacturing.

spanishfly

Brilliant - So I could quote this when i attend the interview then?

Thankyou so much for your help - is this information up to date do you know?

;-)

Ray

Because he failed to mention a material fact on his application
Lying about it can be worse than doing the crime

crg

That may not apply to this case. If the guy who lied on the visa app lied about an arrest for simple possession at the age of 18 then it may not be considered a material fact.

To be a material fact, he'd have to be inadmissible on the true facts of the case and therefore not otherwise entitled to the visa.

Since the juvenile offense doesn't make him inadmissible, making the false statement wasn't a material fact.

However, a single lie on the application, even though immaterial, can hurt the person's credibility and call the other responses into question and make it real hard to overcome the presumption of immigrant intent.

crg

It's up to date as of 9/5/2008.

Here's the link. It's kind of slow. You can google 9 FAM 40.21(b) NOTES and choose View as HTML to get the full version.

http://www.state.gov/documents/organization/86945.pdf.

Bluegrass Lass

Well, you seem to think that consulate officers follow those guidelines to the letter. There have been cases on here, where the CO, for whatever reason, has decided differently. It's not as black and white as you seem to think it is. Lying on any immigration form will come back to bite you. It's better to list the offense, and have it dismissed by the CO, rather than have it come back that you lied (which is worse than the actual offense) and you can be stripped of visas.

And I don't think quoting those guidelines to the CO will get the OP very far. It would distinctly piss me off if someone came into my office spouting these guidelines to me, telling me how to do my job. I would probably deny a visa out of spite.

fatbrit

= only tell me what I want to hear!

fatbrit

Undoubtedly! And certainly don't forget to tell them your legal theory on why a caution isn't a conviction, too!

To be a fly on the wall at this interview...

spanishfly

You are a tool!

Bluegrass Lass

You need to come to grips with this fact: oftentimes, it is up to the discretion of the CO to give you a visa or not, no matter what 'guidelines' exist. And just so you know, a visa does not guarentee you will be allowed entry into the US. The Immigration Officer can decide at the airport to deny you entry, even if you have a visa - only US citizens are guaranteed entry to the US.