andrewb6k

I have a B1/B2 visa which was granted in summer 1994 and exipres July of this year. It was granted as my father was working based in the USA back then, I have not travelled in on it since around 1999 I think, but I assume this does not affect things too much.

I am a UK citizen + resident, and have been working for a company in London since June 2003, we are now hiring a US staff member, but there is nobody suitable there to train him/her. The software is a financial analysis package and requires specialist training. Would my B1 visa enable me to go over there and train this member of staff for a fixed period of time (say around a month, starting early May) out of our parent company's offices in New York? I would continue to be paid by the subsidiary in London, continue to be a UK resident etc... and my company would pick up all expenses related to my stay.

I can fully prove that I intend to return to the UK as I have fixed commitments such as a summer internship with a different company beginning mid-June and the final year of my university degree here starting in September.

I just need to know if this is possible, then I can suggest it to my company and we can advance it to our lawyers in the USA.

crg

That's a complicated question. If you can provide additional information about the arrangement, I may be able to tell if you can do it as a B1.

Who manufactured the software and what country are they based in?

Who sold the software to the US entity?

Was the software sold to the US subsidiary or company by your UK based company?

Was it part of the contract at the point of sale that you would provide training to get it up and running?

If it was a US-made software package, then you would most likely need work authorization to come into the US and conduct this training for a US based company.

Ingo Pakleppa - see web site for email

I would disagree with the other poster. It seems like a clear-cut case to
me, and indeed a B-1 visa would be the right thing.

For that matter, as a UK citizen, you don't need to worry about the visa
expiration date. You can do the same thing with the visa waiver (that,
too, is good for both business and tourist visits).

On Thu, 29 Apr 2004 22:21:12 +0000, andrewb6k wrote:


    > I have a B1/B2 visa which was granted in summer 1994 and exipres July of
    > this year. It was granted as my father was working based in the USA back
    > then, I have not travelled in on it since around 1999 I think, but I
    > assume this does not affect things too much.
    >
    > I am a UK citizen +
    > resident, and have been working for a company in London since June 2003,
    > we are now hiring a US staff member, but there is nobody suitable there
    > to train him/her. The software is a financial analysis package and
    > requires specialist training. Would my B1 visa enable me to go over
    > there and train this member of staff for a fixed period of time (say
    > around a month, starting early May) out of our parent company's offices
    > in New York? I would continue to be paid by the subsidiary in London,
    > continue to be a UK resident etc... and my company would pick up all
    > expenses related to my stay.
    >
    > I can fully prove that I intend to return to the UK as I have fixed
    > commitments such as a summer internship with a different company
    > beginning mid-June and the final year of my university degree here
    > starting in September.
    >
    > I just need to know if this is
    > possible, then I can suggest it to my company and we can advance it to
    > our lawyers in the USA.

--
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crg

So if a US company wanted to bring in 500 citizens of the UK from its UK subsidiary to train its employees around the US on how to use Windows XP, then you think that would be fine as a B1?

What if a gas station owner wants to bring in someone from India on a B1 visa to train his gas station employees on how to operate the lottery ticket machines and gas pumps?

A foreign worker could come over to train someone on how to operate a German made machine as long as the training was part of the original sales agreement and not a separate consulting deal. B1 is a very limited classification.

Ingo Pakleppa - see web site for email

On Fri, 30 Apr 2004 21:02:20 +0000, crg14624 wrote:

    > So if a US company wanted to bring in 500 citizens of the UK from its UK
    > subsidiary to train its employees around the US on how to use Windows
    > XP, then you think that would be fine as a B1?

It would certainly be fine if this was training for a proprietary system.
But, yes, I think even for Windows XP that would be OK.

    > What if a gas station owner wants to bring in someone from India on a B1
    > visa to train his gas station employees on how to operate the lottery
    > ticket machines and gas pumps?

This sounds like a rather far-fetched scenario... But that said, I think
that, too, would be fine.

    > A foreign worker
    > could come over to train someone on how to operate a German made machine
    > as long as the training was part of the original sales agreement and not
    > a separate consulting deal. B1 is a very limited classification.

I think a case for a B-1 is usually pretty easy to make in the given
scenario: somebody working for the same company and coming to the USA for
a short period of time.

You are right that there are sometimes discretionary decisions involved,
but this, to me, seemed pretty clear-cut.

--
Remember, I am strictly a layperson without any legal training. I encourage
everybody to seek competent legal counsel rather than relying on usenet
newsgroups.

Please support H.R. 539, H.R. 832 and S. 1510. More information at
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crg

I agree with you that, on the surface, it looks like he would be admissible. If we had more information about the arrangement we could have a more definitive answer.

He didn't say if this was a propriety system unique to his company, or a system that many companies in his type of work use to conduct business or who provided the software.

The period of time doesn't really matter. For instance, you couldn't come to wash dishes even for one day. Who is paying your salary is part of the equation, but not the main thing.

I'm not saying that this guy is going to get grilled about this activity at the port of entry because they have bigger fish to fry. However, there are some scenarios where this would be unlawful as a B-1.

If this was an American made software package, and an American company, they couldn't bring people in from their overseas subsidiary as a B1 to do this training. The Dept of Labor would have to certify that no Americans can do the work and it would be an H1B. They aren't going to take the person's word for it that it is specialized knowledge.

The lottery machine/gas pump training would only fly if they were US made and sold to the US gas station by the overseas company and the training was provided as part of the initial sales contract. They could even send people to fix the machines based on a limited warranty. If they were coming to install the machines they could only send someone to supervise it, and hire US workers to do the install.

Windows XP is a US product, and they couldn't send people from their UK office to do the work.

Another example is foreign sales people. You could normally come over to sell your foreign product if you only bring samples, and take orders. However, if that product is US-made, then you couldn't come and take orders, or even show it at a trade show without work authorization.

andrewb6k

The software is extremely limited. It is manufactured in the USA, and would only used by a very very small minority of U.S. citizens, I'd say around a thousand people worldwide maximum use it. These tend to be extremely qualified individuals and investment professionals who use it for analysis and forecasting, whereas the work we are using it for is mainly 'database' work, hence no U.S. citizen who would be proficient with the software already would take the job, if you know what I mean.

It is an American-made software package, but it is a UK company which was recently acquired by a larger UK company with a USA office.

I guess this is a complicated scenario and I should ask our legal team, but if there's nothing in it for them (I assume if B1 was acceptable I just fly in as usual and tell the immigration official my intention), I'm not sure they'll advise us.

Alternatively, I could fly in as a journalist, as it is a niche financial market publication company and I do write in the publication and can prove that, but that may require specialist journalist visas??

crg

When coming to train people onthe use of US-made products you would technically require work authorization. The reason is that part of the work visa is that the department of labor will certify that there are no US-workers to do the job. It would be a tough sell to say that noone in the US can be hired to help with the product when it was made here.

They really have better things to do than bust your chops about your one month visit. Time doesn't really matter under the law, but the officer isn't very likely to make a federal case (literally) out of a white collar UK citz coming to help out for a short period of time. When you start stringing the visits together they are more lilkely to critique your business travel.

Journalists need an "I" visa. Dozens of journalists have been refused for trying to do journalist activities on the visa waiver lately, so that's a bad idea unless you get the I visa.

andrewb6k

Thanks for your help. With this in mind, would I be looking at being honest when I enter the USA, and tell the immigration official my intention to stay for a month and train a US citizen? Or do I be dishonest and tell them I am there as a tourist or is there some other 'legitimate' B1 use I can pretend I am there for? I notice 'Research' is a legitimate use, but it says independent research. My title is Research Assistant in the company.

crg

You may want to ask the consulate if you need a visa. If you want to try it on a visa waiver then feel free, but answer all of the questions truthfully. They usually have bigger fish to fry.

Ingo Pakleppa - see web site for email

On Mon, 03 May 2004 15:42:36 +0000, andrewb6k wrote:


    > Originally posted by crg14624 They really have better things to do than
    > bust your chops about your one month visit. Time doesn't really matter
    > under the law, but the officer isn't very likely to make a federal case
    > (literally) out of a white collar UK citz coming to help out for a short
    > period of time. When you start stringing the visits together they are
    > more lilkely to critique your business travel.
    >>
    >>
    >> Thanks for your help. With this in mind, would
    > I be looking at being honest when I enter the USA, and tell the
    > immigration official my intention to stay for a month and train a US
    > citizen? Or do I be dishonest and tell them I am there as a tourist or
    > is there some other 'legitimate' B1 use I can pretend I am there for? I
    > notice 'Research' is a legitimate use, but it says independent research.
    > My title is Research Assistant in the company.

Answer honestly. Just present it in such a way that it is clear that this
is a short-term business visit.

Note that "Research" may mean several different things. Research for a
book, for instance, would be OK. But research if your profession is
academic in nature (that is, your main job is research) would not be OK.

--
Remember, I am strictly a layperson without any legal training. I encourage
everybody to seek competent legal counsel rather than relying on usenet
newsgroups.

Please support H.R. 539, H.R. 832 and S. 1510. More information at
http://www.kkeane.com/lobbyspousal-faq.shtml

Please visit my new FAQ at http://www.kkeane.com (always under construction)

My email address in usenet posts is now invalid for spam protection. See
my Web site for information on how to contact me.

Please feel free to enjoy some of my photographs at my Web site
http://www.ingopakleppa.com ! Comments are welcome.