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Post-Nuptial agreements

Post-Nuptial agreements

Old Mar 16th 2016, 10:24 pm
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Default Post-Nuptial agreements

A few months ago I posted an article on BE about pre-nuptial agreements in the USA. The article pointed out the rather obvious fact that if you don't have your own pre-nuptial agreement then you have another one by default - the one that the state has decided upon.

There have been a few posts in recent weeks from women who find themselves in difficult situations facing a divorce in the US or, in the most recent post, already divorced and wanting to go back to the UK but the father insisting that the child stays in the USA.

Rather like making a will, making a "post-nuptial" agreement is probably something that most of us would prefer to not think about or regard as unnecessary.

Having an agreement in place about finances and child support/alimony could prevent huge legal bills in the US. From what I've read a post-nuptial agreement can't cover child custody issues. If your ex-wife/husband says you can't go back to the UK with your children, then you probably can't but an agreement could mean that at least you are better off financially than you would be if your local state rules are applied.

After living in France and now the USA, I have to say that I've heard enough horror stories about couples splitting to think that a post-nup when moving to the USA is something to think about.
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Old Mar 17th 2016, 1:56 am
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Default Re: Post-Nuptial agreements

Any suggestions on how you broach that topic?
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Old Mar 17th 2016, 3:20 am
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Default Re: Post-Nuptial agreements

Originally Posted by Boiler View Post
Any suggestions on how you broach that topic?
"oh darling, everyone does it in america"?

" I know that if worst came to worst you wouldn't want me and the kids to be at the mercy of the US divorce laws"

or " I know we are fine but I read about this woman on BE who ended up having to stay in the US and her husband only had to give her and the 2 kids $400 a month"

or "I heard about people having $60k-$80k legal bills EACH because they argued about everything and the only ones who benefitted were the lawyer".

I know. it's tricky isn't it? I think as Brits/Europeans we have an instinctive antipathy to all this and we are all much more protected in the UK, the idea of a pre-nup is also seen as dangerous to the divorce rights as well. Not so, in the US. We take out extra insurance here, we pay for health insurance here and I think we should be talking about a post-nup too.
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Old Mar 17th 2016, 3:46 am
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Default Re: Post-Nuptial agreements

"oh darling, everyone does it in america"?

Sounds a good reason not to.

" I know that if worst came to worst you wouldn't want me and the kids to be at the mercy of the US divorce laws"

Thinks what about me and the kids?

or " I know we are fine but I read about this woman on BE who ended up having to stay in the US and her husband only had to give her and the 2 kids $400 a month"

I need to protect my financial situation, now who was is that Lawyer the guy next door used.

"I heard about people having $60k-$80k legal bills EACH because they argued about everything and the only ones who benefitted were the lawyer".

No limit as to what aggrieved spouse could rack up with or without a pre post nup.

I know. it's tricky isn't it? I think as Brits/Europeans we have an instinctive antipathy to all this and we are all much more protected in the UK, the idea of a pre-nup is also seen as dangerous to the divorce rights as well. Not so, in the US. We take out extra insurance here, we pay for health insurance here and I think we should be talking about a post-nup too.
Not sure what you mean, plenty of messy expensive divorces, location not that important.

Situation would not be that different if she was a USC in the UK.
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Old Mar 17th 2016, 3:54 am
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Default Re: Post-Nuptial agreements

The BIG difference Boiler, is that a pre or post nuptial agreement in the UK doesn't hold water.

In the US though, it does.
The whole point of the agreement is that it is expressly designed to prevent on-going battles in the case of a divorce in the US. It's a contract - legally binding on both sides.

If I brought it up as something that I would like done as a trailing spouse and my OH said some of the things you've said in your post, well, I wouldn't go.

According to the latest survey on global relocation trends, the biggest reasons for an international assignment not going ahead, or not working out past a few months are the needs of the trailing spouse. I think it's something that should be addressed.
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Old Mar 17th 2016, 4:00 am
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Default Re: Post-Nuptial agreements

A postnup can’t cover things like child custody or child support

Will A Postnuptial Contract Really Protect You? - Lawyers.com
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Old Mar 17th 2016, 4:02 am
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Default Re: Post-Nuptial agreements

Originally Posted by Boiler View Post
A postnup can’t cover things like child custody or child support

Will A Postnuptial Contract Really Protect You? - Lawyers.com
I think it does cover the finances but not the custody. However, an agreement stating that in the event of xyz then the intention is to allow the spouse to return to the UK is going to be helpful.
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Old Mar 17th 2016, 4:05 am
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Default Re: Post-Nuptial agreements

Originally Posted by petitefrancaise View Post
I think it does cover the finances but not the custody. However, an agreement stating that in the event of xyz then the intention is to allow the spouse to return to the UK is going to be helpful.
Spouse can not be held hostage.
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Old Mar 17th 2016, 4:16 am
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Default Re: Post-Nuptial agreements

FFS Boiler.

She is being held hostage. She can go anytime she likes. But not the kids. Of course she is being held hostage.

Her husband on the other hand could pee off to anywhere he likes, keeps on paying the $400 a month and if she wants to be with her v young children she has no choice but to stay.

Let's make this poor woman's situation a "sticky" shall we? or anyone of the other horrid divorce threads? You know like when we point people in the direction of "Pulaskis ways of living in the US"? When anyone says "my husband/wife is accepting a job" we point them in the direction of a sticky telling them of the pitfalls of being a trailing spouse.
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Old Mar 17th 2016, 4:50 am
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Default Re: Post-Nuptial agreements

Originally Posted by petitefrancaise View Post
FFS Boiler.

She is being held hostage. She can go anytime she likes. But not the kids. Of course she is being held hostage.

Her husband on the other hand could pee off to anywhere he likes, keeps on paying the $400 a month and if she wants to be with her v young children she has no choice but to stay.

Let's make this poor woman's situation a "sticky" shall we? or anyone of the other horrid divorce threads? You know like when we point people in the direction of "Pulaskis ways of living in the US"? When anyone says "my husband/wife is accepting a job" we point them in the direction of a sticky telling them of the pitfalls of being a trailing spouse.
Not a bad idea.............
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Old Mar 17th 2016, 6:14 am
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Default Re: Post-Nuptial agreements

Originally Posted by petitefrancaise View Post
FFS Boiler.

She is being held hostage. She can go anytime she likes. But not the kids. Of course she is being held hostage.

Her husband on the other hand could pee off to anywhere he likes, keeps on paying the $400 a month and if she wants to be with her v young children she has no choice but to stay.

Let's make this poor woman's situation a "sticky" shall we? or anyone of the other horrid divorce threads? You know like when we point people in the direction of "Pulaskis ways of living in the US"? When anyone says "my husband/wife is accepting a job" we point them in the direction of a sticky telling them of the pitfalls of being a trailing spouse.
Let's put the shoe on the other foot for a moment. Say she is able to take the children and go back to the UK. What about the father? Isn't he being held hostage to what she wants? If he wants to see his young children he will have to find a way to move to UK.

Maybe there should be a sticky thread warning people about having children with partners from other countries.
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Old Mar 17th 2016, 9:10 am
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Default Re: Post-Nuptial agreements

Originally Posted by Dorothy View Post
Let's put the shoe on the other foot for a moment. Say she is able to take the children and go back to the UK. What about the father? Isn't he being held hostage to what she wants? If he wants to see his young children he will have to find a way to move to UK.

Maybe there should be a sticky thread warning people about having children with partners from other countries.
Exactly. Why on earth should the spouse that wants to leave the country get the children? That's a ****ed up mind set imvho. The parents are divorcing each other not the children. Neither one has the right to the children.
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Old Mar 17th 2016, 12:37 pm
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Default Re: Post-Nuptial agreements

Originally Posted by moneypenny20 View Post
Exactly. Why on earth should the spouse that wants to leave the country get the children? That's a ****ed up mind set imvho. The parents are divorcing each other not the children. Neither one has the right to the children.
Or both have rights. I agree whole premise is weird.
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Old Mar 17th 2016, 1:25 pm
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Default Re: Post-Nuptial agreements

Originally Posted by petitefrancaise View Post
FFS Boiler.

She is being held hostage. She can go anytime she likes. But not the kids. Of course she is being held hostage.

Her husband on the other hand could pee off to anywhere he likes, keeps on paying the $400 a month and if she wants to be with her v young children she has no choice but to stay.

Let's make this poor woman's situation a "sticky" shall we? or anyone of the other horrid divorce threads? You know like when we point people in the direction of "Pulaskis ways of living in the US"? When anyone says "my husband/wife is accepting a job" we point them in the direction of a sticky telling them of the pitfalls of being a trailing spouse.
The phrase "trailing spouse" to me defines a situation where both parents are expats (and only one works). In that situation it would be usual for all concerned to return to the home country, either immediately or once the contract is up.

The problem I think you're discussing is specific to families relocating from the home country of one parent to the home country of the other parent, after which the parent who is newly "home" files for divorce.

And yes, I agree asking for a pre-move legal agreement that says the children can return with the divorced parent to where they've mostly grown up is reasonable, at least in some cases.
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Old Mar 17th 2016, 2:21 pm
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Default Re: Post-Nuptial agreements

Originally Posted by Owen778 View Post
The phrase "trailing spouse" to me defines a situation where both parents are expats (and only one works). In that situation it would be usual for all concerned to return to the home country, either immediately or once the contract is up.

The problem I think you're discussing is specific to families relocating from the home country of one parent to the home country of the other parent, after which the parent who is newly "home" files for divorce.

And yes, I agree asking for a pre-move legal agreement that says the children can return with the divorced parent to where they've mostly grown up is reasonable, at least in some cases.
In the case being referenced they mostly grew up in the US.
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