A personal opinion of the USA
Jan 30th 2010, 2:04 pm
#91
Bloody Yank
Joined: Oct 2005
Location: USA! USA!
Posts: 4,186
Re: A personal opinion of the USA
That is a low volume experiment. The lease price doesn't even cover the cost of producing the fuel cells.
I have driven the Honda Clarity and some other hydrogen cars. Nobody, but nobody, at the auto manufacturers believes that they are ready for market.
I have driven the Honda Clarity and some other hydrogen cars. Nobody, but nobody, at the auto manufacturers believes that they are ready for market.
Jan 30th 2010, 2:39 pm
#92
Septicity
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 23,762
Re: A personal opinion of the USA
Jan 30th 2010, 2:50 pm
#93
Bloody Yank
Joined: Oct 2005
Location: USA! USA!
Posts: 4,186
Re: A personal opinion of the USA
The BMW program is similar to the Honda Clarity lease and the Chevy Equinox FCEV loaner/fleet program. It's small, and does not recoup the cost of the cars.
If the vehicle was ready for mass production, they would produce far more of them, and they would sell them. They're offered via a (subsidized) lease, and then only to celebrities and the like, because BMW wants the cars returned to them, because fuel cells do not have the longevity of internal combustion engines. They are not ready for market.
Jan 30th 2010, 2:58 pm
#94
Septicity
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 23,762
Re: A personal opinion of the USA
BMW is offering just 100 of these for lease. That is a tiny fraction of the total number of 7-series that they sell globally each year.
The BMW program is similar to the Honda Clarity lease and the Chevy Equinox FCEV loaner/fleet program. It's small, and does not recoup the cost of the cars.
If the vehicle was ready for mass production, they would produce far more of them, and they would sell them. They're offered via a (subsidized) lease, and then only to celebrities and the like, because BMW wants the cars returned to them, because fuel cells do not have the longevity of internal combustion engines. They are not ready for market.
The BMW program is similar to the Honda Clarity lease and the Chevy Equinox FCEV loaner/fleet program. It's small, and does not recoup the cost of the cars.
If the vehicle was ready for mass production, they would produce far more of them, and they would sell them. They're offered via a (subsidized) lease, and then only to celebrities and the like, because BMW wants the cars returned to them, because fuel cells do not have the longevity of internal combustion engines. They are not ready for market.
That's why we need government intervention to declare the next fuel. Hydrogen cells are the obvious aim, but using hydrogen as a fuel for internal combustion engines is a stop-gap measure for the technology to catch up.
You make it sound as if I'm suggesting we ban gasoline tomorrow and introduce hydrogen-powered cars next week, I'm not sure where you get this idea from. But if we start tomorrow by carrot and sticking manufacturers and gas stations, then we might be able to stop supplying gasoline for vehicles within, say, the next quarter century.
If we leave it to market forces, we'll not have moved any further forward at the moment we actually run out of gasoline. Time to start now.
Jan 30th 2010, 6:05 pm
#95
BE Enthusiast
Joined: Sep 2009
Location: York, PA, USA
Posts: 856
Re: A personal opinion of the USA
Fatbrit, regarding your opinion on socialism, I know what it is, and I know how to use it, but I'll tell you something, if you think the USSR, China, Vietnam, Eastern Bloc were socialist, you are dead wrong. And if they defined socialism before the DIED OUT, or adopted capitalism, then we know it'll never work. This is what Progressives/Socialists/Social Democrats think. They think that the people can't ever think for themselves, they don't know what's good for them, so the state has to play mommy and daddy and make all the decisions for us, because it's for the "common good". Last time I heard that, millions of people were murdered by *cough* Stalin, because it was for the good of happy-happy-joy-joy "socialism". The leaders of socialism lie to you to make you spread the word about it (let's call them useful idiots) these will be your Greenpeace/Progressives that read the Manifesto and cheer yeaaa workers unite! Let me say that lefty governments suck, period. Government interventio in the economy has never been a good thing. You could ask my relatives living in eastern Germany and they can tell you how government intervention for the greater good works. They paid for a Trabant and had to wait years before it materialized, the constant Communist Party brainwashing on TV, the all-seeing eye of the Stasi Police (or CCTV cameras on every corner putting it into the British perspective. But remember the government put them there for the greater good and safety of the public!) This is exactly why I have completely abandoned Progressive/Leftist principles and ideals, because NOTHING has ever come out good from it. You like that NHS don't you? When the British government REALLY pisses off the people, you don't think they'll just yank NHS funding to shut you up? And claim that the NHS is broke. I can't ever believe how, in my life, I thought progressive-ism was ever a good thing! And here I thought my own FAMILY, who lived under so-called socialism since at the conclusion of WWII, was lying to me. Luckily though I was born here, I have to thank my grandmother for that, she risked her life running across the border into West Berlin, had she not done that I would have been born into the EUSSR
By the way Tianamin Square if you recall, many of those protestors were grassroots socialists, aka the useful idiots, that the "socialists" in government decided to run over and shoot. Whenever government says we have to do this because the greater good depends on it, be afraid, be very afraid
By the way Tianamin Square if you recall, many of those protestors were grassroots socialists, aka the useful idiots, that the "socialists" in government decided to run over and shoot. Whenever government says we have to do this because the greater good depends on it, be afraid, be very afraid
Jan 30th 2010, 7:06 pm
#97
Just Joined
Joined: Oct 2009
Location: midleton Ireland
Posts: 23
Re: A personal opinion of the USA
All I can say about this whole tread is if you don't like the good old U.S.A is a plane leaves everyday.
And yes I a yank living in Ireland
And yes I a yank living in Ireland
Jan 30th 2010, 7:07 pm
#98
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Jul 2004
Location: 30°16'29" North 097°44'26" West
Posts: 22,151
Re: A personal opinion of the USA
And you are saying so yourself:
Originally Posted by chrisfromusa
...."socialism".
....the Manifesto
....the constant Communist Party brainwashing on TV
....so-called socialism
...."socialists"
....the Manifesto
....the constant Communist Party brainwashing on TV
....so-called socialism
...."socialists"
The right wing brainwashing in the US clearly works.
Jan 31st 2010, 12:55 am
#100
Septic Sprout
Joined: Aug 2004
Location: Shanghai
Posts: 7,995
Re: A personal opinion of the USA
Fatbrit, regarding your opinion on socialism, I know what it is, and I know how to use it, but I'll tell you something, if you think the USSR, China, Vietnam, Eastern Bloc were socialist, you are dead wrong. And if they defined socialism before the DIED OUT, or adopted capitalism, then we know it'll never work. This is what Progressives/Socialists/Social Democrats think. They think that the people can't ever think for themselves, they don't know what's good for them, so the state has to play mommy and daddy and make all the decisions for us, because it's for the "common good". Last time I heard that, millions of people were murdered by *cough* Stalin, because it was for the good of happy-happy-joy-joy "socialism". The leaders of socialism lie to you to make you spread the word about it (let's call them useful idiots) these will be your Greenpeace/Progressives that read the Manifesto and cheer yeaaa workers unite! Let me say that lefty governments suck, period. Government interventio in the economy has never been a good thing. You could ask my relatives living in eastern Germany and they can tell you how government intervention for the greater good works. They paid for a Trabant and had to wait years before it materialized, the constant Communist Party brainwashing on TV, the all-seeing eye of the Stasi Police (or CCTV cameras on every corner putting it into the British perspective. But remember the government put them there for the greater good and safety of the public!) This is exactly why I have completely abandoned Progressive/Leftist principles and ideals, because NOTHING has ever come out good from it. You like that NHS don't you? When the British government REALLY pisses off the people, you don't think they'll just yank NHS funding to shut you up? And claim that the NHS is broke. I can't ever believe how, in my life, I thought progressive-ism was ever a good thing! And here I thought my own FAMILY, who lived under so-called socialism since at the conclusion of WWII, was lying to me. Luckily though I was born here, I have to thank my grandmother for that, she risked her life running across the border into West Berlin, had she not done that I would have been born into the EUSSR
By the way Tianamin Square if you recall, many of those protestors were grassroots socialists, aka the useful idiots, that the "socialists" in government decided to run over and shoot. Whenever government says we have to do this because the greater good depends on it, be afraid, be very afraid
By the way Tianamin Square if you recall, many of those protestors were grassroots socialists, aka the useful idiots, that the "socialists" in government decided to run over and shoot. Whenever government says we have to do this because the greater good depends on it, be afraid, be very afraid
Jan 31st 2010, 1:08 am
#101
A lion in your lap
Joined: Jul 2003
Location: Sparta NJ
Posts: 7,605
Re: A personal opinion of the USA
Fatbrit, regarding your opinion on socialism, I know what it is, and I know how to use it, but I'll tell you something, if you think the USSR, China, Vietnam, Eastern Bloc were socialist, you are dead wrong. And if they defined socialism before the DIED OUT, or adopted capitalism, then we know it'll never work. This is what Progressives/Socialists/Social Democrats think. They think that the people can't ever think for themselves, they don't know what's good for them, so the state has to play mommy and daddy and make all the decisions for us, because it's for the "common good". Last time I heard that, millions of people were murdered by *cough* Stalin, because it was for the good of happy-happy-joy-joy "socialism". The leaders of socialism lie to you to make you spread the word about it (let's call them useful idiots) these will be your Greenpeace/Progressives that read the Manifesto and cheer yeaaa workers unite! Let me say that lefty governments suck, period. Government interventio in the economy has never been a good thing. You could ask my relatives living in eastern Germany and they can tell you how government intervention for the greater good works. They paid for a Trabant and had to wait years before it materialized, the constant Communist Party brainwashing on TV, the all-seeing eye of the Stasi Police (or CCTV cameras on every corner putting it into the British perspective. But remember the government put them there for the greater good and safety of the public!) This is exactly why I have completely abandoned Progressive/Leftist principles and ideals, because NOTHING has ever come out good from it. You like that NHS don't you? When the British government REALLY pisses off the people, you don't think they'll just yank NHS funding to shut you up? And claim that the NHS is broke. I can't ever believe how, in my life, I thought progressive-ism was ever a good thing! And here I thought my own FAMILY, who lived under so-called socialism since at the conclusion of WWII, was lying to me. Luckily though I was born here, I have to thank my grandmother for that, she risked her life running across the border into West Berlin, had she not done that I would have been born into the EUSSR
By the way Tianamin Square if you recall, many of those protestors were grassroots socialists, aka the useful idiots, that the "socialists" in government decided to run over and shoot. Whenever government says we have to do this because the greater good depends on it, be afraid, be very afraid
By the way Tianamin Square if you recall, many of those protestors were grassroots socialists, aka the useful idiots, that the "socialists" in government decided to run over and shoot. Whenever government says we have to do this because the greater good depends on it, be afraid, be very afraid
Jan 31st 2010, 1:16 am
#102
Account Closed
Joined: Mar 2008
Location: Just outside of decency
Posts: 7,837
Re: A personal opinion of the USA
Some very personal opinions:
Dislike :
hideous power lines down every street Cos telephone poles are so much more attractive
sexless, fat, loud-mouthed american women Cos fat loud mouthed Northern women are so much more attractive
excrutiating drawling american working-class accents Cos a Birmingham accent is like having honey poured in your ears
potholes in city roads Cos Britain doesnt have a single pot hole, especially after the recent snow made the Shires look like Beirut
lack of sidewalks Cos pavements covered in chewing gum and dog shit look so much nicer
the dispiriting ugliness of the cities Birmingham and Bristol for starters
foul supermarket foods Cos Pot Noodles are a ****ing delicacy
same shops everywhere with no real choice Cos theres so much choice on the average British high street.
few fresh vegetables WTF?? I lived in Bum**** USA and never went without Veg
americans ignorance of the rest of the world Ive seen the rest of the world and most of it should be ignored
medical insurance companies Cos BUPA aren't bastards.
crooked politicians corrupted by payouts from big business Cos British politians are so honest and wouldnt dream of fiddling expenses etc
american pride in their country when actually it's almost second rate Nothing wrong with their pride at all...however I think you mean how they blindly exaggerate everything about it when the majority have no experience of anywhere else to guage it. Face it..they have been brainwashed into believing its the best place in the world its not their fault..its their Governments agenda
baseball, rounders surely? Cant argue with that but even so..so what?
american football, utterly ludicrous See answer for baseball
houses built with of match sticks Because when youre surrounded by endless supplies of wood why wouldnt you build a house out of brick?
poor quality phone system with distorted limited bandwidth Yup, their phone companies totally suck.. no argument there.
outrageous prices for internet/phone/TV Yeah, they should be free
stars & stripes flag - vulgar and too frequent Actually its a beautiful flag and I was glad to see it everywhere, Patriotism is a good thing aslong as a patriot see's the bad aswell as the good.
american realtors - real dishonesty and greed As a qualified realtor of NY state I can confirm that the system is absolutely ripe for abuse and corruption. Dual agency is a licence to print money in a boom. However, you're talking about America and "greed is good" in America..it IS the American way.. Get used to it
the expensive and long-winded immigration process except for mexicans who just stroll over the border Id be more pissed off by the fact that every single POA immigration officer is a rude arrogant son of a bitch with no manners whatso****ing ever.
the childish obsession with guns The country is young, not much history and what history there is was based on and fundament to the gun and a citizens right to bare arms. They're not likely to be giving them up anytime soon, mores the pity but there you have it.
barbaric death penalty Where as the filth and scum that take lives should be pandered to and feed and watered in comfort at the tax payers expense.
Like:
Cheap petrol Which is usually crap quality out in the sticks
wonderful out-of-city roads for my Z4 With a over zealously enforced pathetic 55mph speed limit
american can-do attitude Yeah can do if you give them cash
cultured New England classless accent, so good after the cockney/north country/scottish whines that the BBC now inflicts on everybody Yeah lets all sound the same and mispronounce words and phrases.
filet steak Pumped full of steroids and water and banned in Europe cos its shite.
pork chops Cos you cant get a pork chop in Britain
Sam Adams Boston Lager Cos everyone needs to drink piss once in a while
Borders bookshop Also available in the UK as well as Waterstones
verizon FIOS Whatever
dunkin donuts Oh Do leave of FFS
ice cream The best of which is Stewarts (New England chain) "Adirondack Bear Paw".
good quality bindings on american books They have to be better. fatter hands open and close the pages.
my american wife ... really..mine wasnt so great
Dislike :
hideous power lines down every street Cos telephone poles are so much more attractive
sexless, fat, loud-mouthed american women Cos fat loud mouthed Northern women are so much more attractive
excrutiating drawling american working-class accents Cos a Birmingham accent is like having honey poured in your ears
potholes in city roads Cos Britain doesnt have a single pot hole, especially after the recent snow made the Shires look like Beirut
lack of sidewalks Cos pavements covered in chewing gum and dog shit look so much nicer
the dispiriting ugliness of the cities Birmingham and Bristol for starters
foul supermarket foods Cos Pot Noodles are a ****ing delicacy
same shops everywhere with no real choice Cos theres so much choice on the average British high street.
few fresh vegetables WTF?? I lived in Bum**** USA and never went without Veg
americans ignorance of the rest of the world Ive seen the rest of the world and most of it should be ignored
medical insurance companies Cos BUPA aren't bastards.
crooked politicians corrupted by payouts from big business Cos British politians are so honest and wouldnt dream of fiddling expenses etc
american pride in their country when actually it's almost second rate Nothing wrong with their pride at all...however I think you mean how they blindly exaggerate everything about it when the majority have no experience of anywhere else to guage it. Face it..they have been brainwashed into believing its the best place in the world its not their fault..its their Governments agenda
baseball, rounders surely? Cant argue with that but even so..so what?
american football, utterly ludicrous See answer for baseball
houses built with of match sticks Because when youre surrounded by endless supplies of wood why wouldnt you build a house out of brick?
poor quality phone system with distorted limited bandwidth Yup, their phone companies totally suck.. no argument there.
outrageous prices for internet/phone/TV Yeah, they should be free
stars & stripes flag - vulgar and too frequent Actually its a beautiful flag and I was glad to see it everywhere, Patriotism is a good thing aslong as a patriot see's the bad aswell as the good.
american realtors - real dishonesty and greed As a qualified realtor of NY state I can confirm that the system is absolutely ripe for abuse and corruption. Dual agency is a licence to print money in a boom. However, you're talking about America and "greed is good" in America..it IS the American way.. Get used to it
the expensive and long-winded immigration process except for mexicans who just stroll over the border Id be more pissed off by the fact that every single POA immigration officer is a rude arrogant son of a bitch with no manners whatso****ing ever.
the childish obsession with guns The country is young, not much history and what history there is was based on and fundament to the gun and a citizens right to bare arms. They're not likely to be giving them up anytime soon, mores the pity but there you have it.
barbaric death penalty Where as the filth and scum that take lives should be pandered to and feed and watered in comfort at the tax payers expense.
Like:
Cheap petrol Which is usually crap quality out in the sticks
wonderful out-of-city roads for my Z4 With a over zealously enforced pathetic 55mph speed limit
american can-do attitude Yeah can do if you give them cash
cultured New England classless accent, so good after the cockney/north country/scottish whines that the BBC now inflicts on everybody Yeah lets all sound the same and mispronounce words and phrases.
filet steak Pumped full of steroids and water and banned in Europe cos its shite.
pork chops Cos you cant get a pork chop in Britain
Sam Adams Boston Lager Cos everyone needs to drink piss once in a while
Borders bookshop Also available in the UK as well as Waterstones
verizon FIOS Whatever
dunkin donuts Oh Do leave of FFS
ice cream The best of which is Stewarts (New England chain) "Adirondack Bear Paw".
good quality bindings on american books They have to be better. fatter hands open and close the pages.
my american wife ... really..mine wasnt so great
Jan 31st 2010, 3:23 am
#103
BE Forum Addict
Joined: May 2009
Location: on the horizon
Posts: 4,382
Re: A personal opinion of the USA
Fatbrit, regarding your opinion on socialism, I know what it is, and I know how to use it, but I'll tell you something, if you think the USSR, China, Vietnam, Eastern Bloc were socialist, you are dead wrong. And if they defined socialism before the DIED OUT, or adopted capitalism, then we know it'll never work. This is what Progressives/Socialists/Social Democrats think. They think that the people can't ever think for themselves, they don't know what's good for them, so the state has to play mommy and daddy and make all the decisions for us, because it's for the "common good". Last time I heard that, millions of people were murdered by *cough* Stalin, because it was for the good of happy-happy-joy-joy "socialism". The leaders of socialism lie to you to make you spread the word about it (let's call them useful idiots) these will be your Greenpeace/Progressives that read the Manifesto and cheer yeaaa workers unite! Let me say that lefty governments suck, period. Government interventio in the economy has never been a good thing. You could ask my relatives living in eastern Germany and they can tell you how government intervention for the greater good works. They paid for a Trabant and had to wait years before it materialized, the constant Communist Party brainwashing on TV, the all-seeing eye of the Stasi Police (or CCTV cameras on every corner putting it into the British perspective. But remember the government put them there for the greater good and safety of the public!) This is exactly why I have completely abandoned Progressive/Leftist principles and ideals, because NOTHING has ever come out good from it. You like that NHS don't you? When the British government REALLY pisses off the people, you don't think they'll just yank NHS funding to shut you up? And claim that the NHS is broke. I can't ever believe how, in my life, I thought progressive-ism was ever a good thing! And here I thought my own FAMILY, who lived under so-called socialism since at the conclusion of WWII, was lying to me. Luckily though I was born here, I have to thank my grandmother for that, she risked her life running across the border into West Berlin, had she not done that I would have been born into the EUSSR
By the way Tianamin Square if you recall, many of those protestors were grassroots socialists, aka the useful idiots, that the "socialists" in government decided to run over and shoot. Whenever government says we have to do this because the greater good depends on it, be afraid, be very afraid
By the way Tianamin Square if you recall, many of those protestors were grassroots socialists, aka the useful idiots, that the "socialists" in government decided to run over and shoot. Whenever government says we have to do this because the greater good depends on it, be afraid, be very afraid
It also looks a bit like the back of that Bowie compilation album "ChangesOneBowie"
Jan 31st 2010, 3:37 am
#104
Bloody Yank
Joined: Oct 2005
Location: USA! USA!
Posts: 4,186
Re: A personal opinion of the USA
The only automaker taking this approach is Mazda, and then is only experimenting with it on a rotary. Mazda holds the patents on rotaries, so no one can else can use them, and given a lot of the deficiencies of rotaries, nobody else would want to. At this stage, hydrogen cars use fuel cells to power electric motors.
You are engaging in tremendous amounts of premature pontification. Hydrogen is an experimental technology. If you would do your research about it and talk to some of the people who are working on it, then you would know that it poses tremendous challenges and that is not at all certain that hydrogen will prove to be viable. Forcing service stations today to add pumping systems to service vehicles that may never get off the ground would be a bad idea.
There is no reason to bet the farm on a single approach that may not even work. More research will be needed before anyone will be able to say that it can work.
At this stage, it would be more prudent to research many options until a good one is found. In the meantime, smaller cars and hybrids are the best alternatives for reduced oil consumption. Better still, try to get people to drive less, so that they demand less fuel in the first place.
There is no reason to bet the farm on a single approach that may not even work. More research will be needed before anyone will be able to say that it can work.
At this stage, it would be more prudent to research many options until a good one is found. In the meantime, smaller cars and hybrids are the best alternatives for reduced oil consumption. Better still, try to get people to drive less, so that they demand less fuel in the first place.
Jan 31st 2010, 3:43 am
#105
Bloody Yank
Joined: Oct 2005
Location: USA! USA!
Posts: 4,186
Re: A personal opinion of the USA
Fatbrit, regarding your opinion on socialism, I know what it is, and I know how to use it, but I'll tell you something, if you think the USSR, China, Vietnam, Eastern Bloc were socialist, you are dead wrong. And if they defined socialism before the DIED OUT, or adopted capitalism, then we know it'll never work. This is what Progressives/Socialists/Social Democrats think. They think that the people can't ever think for themselves, they don't know what's good for them, so the state has to play mommy and daddy and make all the decisions for us, because it's for the "common good". Last time I heard that, millions of people were murdered by *cough* Stalin, because it was for the good of happy-happy-joy-joy "socialism". The leaders of socialism lie to you to make you spread the word about it (let's call them useful idiots) these will be your Greenpeace/Progressives that read the Manifesto and cheer yeaaa workers unite! Let me say that lefty governments suck, period. Government interventio in the economy has never been a good thing. You could ask my relatives living in eastern Germany and they can tell you how government intervention for the greater good works. They paid for a Trabant and had to wait years before it materialized, the constant Communist Party brainwashing on TV, the all-seeing eye of the Stasi Police (or CCTV cameras on every corner putting it into the British perspective. But remember the government put them there for the greater good and safety of the public!) This is exactly why I have completely abandoned Progressive/Leftist principles and ideals, because NOTHING has ever come out good from it. You like that NHS don't you? When the British government REALLY pisses off the people, you don't think they'll just yank NHS funding to shut you up? And claim that the NHS is broke. I can't ever believe how, in my life, I thought progressive-ism was ever a good thing! And here I thought my own FAMILY, who lived under so-called socialism since at the conclusion of WWII, was lying to me. Luckily though I was born here, I have to thank my grandmother for that, she risked her life running across the border into West Berlin, had she not done that I would have been born into the EUSSR
