janadeen

Mint Julep

Yes. something like that

hobbes79

You know, this could be a minor cultural difference...

I often would say that in the UK. When my US wife first heard me say it, she almost dropped to the floor.

When my mum was over recently, she also described someone as oriental.

Not say it's right, I just think it's something frowned upon far more vigorously in the US than the UK.

Enough of that... congrats!

jeffreyhy

j,

Why? It's a valid, observable characteristic that helps to identify and distinguish her from other consular staff or employees. Do you have a problem with oriental ladies? Orientals in general? Ladies in general?

[Disclosure: I am married to a sweet, friendly, oriental lady.]

Regards, JEff

hobbes79

Like I said, I think it's a cultural difference.

I use the term as an old (bad?) habit on occassion. It doesn't help in the US, it's perfectly ok to say "oriental rug", for example. I've heard it's offensive since it's saying a myriad of cultures are basically the same thing, and that generalization is offensive. I deliberately avoid using the term now.

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/in...3223401AAzO3WA

It's the same reason why "African-American" is a well used term here, since it's more specific than "black". Though tends to be used to describe ALL black people whether or not they've even set foot in America, which I would think makes it a little absurd. I also think it's funny that Charlize Theron is an African-American (from South Africa but gained USC), but I digress.

And if we get upset about generalizing cultures, why doesn't the term "white" get everyone irate.

Anyway, getting excessively political. I'm going to back slowly away...

hobbes79

Ooh, interesting article on the matter:

http://myamericanmeltingpot.blogspot...-oriental.html

Of course I did a little digging and found that in the United States we adhere to these guidelines:
"Merriam-Webster describes the term as "sometimes offensive,"[6] Encarta states when the term is used as a noun it is considered "a highly offensive term for somebody from East Asia."

But ... "In British English, the term "Oriental" is now used to describe one of East Asian extraction, especially the ethnic groups of China, Japan, Korea, Vietnam and any other pertinent and surrounding countries, and has no pejorative connotations. The alternative is usually to use "Far Eastern," or refer to the specific country from which an individual or family may have originated, if this is known."

So there you go! Cultural difference it is! Since I'm aware it's offensive here, I try to avoid it. But at least I know my confusion is a little understandable.

meauxna

"Red Indian" is another one. Would be poorly taken in the US, is somewhat common in the UK.

Re: 'Oriental', I've been told by people I trust that it's appropriate for inanimate object but that 'Asian' describes people.

jeffreyhy

h,

Yes, you stated your thought already in post #7. My thought is PC'ness gone wild.

I'm curious what janadeen, the person who gave the 'thumbs down', is thinking.

Regards, JEff

Mint Julep

And while all of these writings have been immensely interesting and entertaining, my reaction to the poster with the gesture was in line, I believe, with his/her feeling that had not so much to do with ethnicity, but more with a certain lady of oriental/Asian appearance who has acquired a reputation at the London Embassy of being a little difficult to deal with at the fraught K1 Interview, hence the importance of having all your ducks in a row At least thats how I saw it anyway...

janadeen

I’m wondering why the mention of the person’s race, heritage, ethnicity – whathaveyou ... at all.

In describing the appt, it’s interesting to me that the OP wrote:

“where a sweet, friendly oriental lady took my paperwork.”

I was wondering the relevance of mentioning that the woman was oriental. I’m wondering if the woman were white or black or disabled, would the sentence have been:

“where a sweet, friendly white lady took my paperwork.”

“where a sweet, friendly black lady took my paperwork.”

“where a sweet, friendly handicapped lady took my paperwork.”

Also, I’ve always been taught that referring to objects / the region as oriental or The Orient, is correct. Referring to an Asian person as oriental was offensive. In my experience, the vast majority of Asians find it offensive to be referred to as oriental.

And yes Hobbes, perhaps you’re right – perhaps it is frowned upon in some places more than others. I suppose we all really do look at the world thru different lenses.

So it goes.

Thanks!

jeffreyhy

j,

Thanks for the detailed explanation.

My further thought is that when trying to identify one person out of a group of people it's both natural and helpful to point out the characteristics of the person of interest that separate them from the crowd. In the case of the consulate in London, 'oriental' (or asian), would likely narrow the possibilities considerably.

As for would the descriptors 'white', 'black', or 'handicapped' be used, I think the answer should be 'yes' if those descriptions fit the person and were being used to distinguish one or a few individuals from a large group that did not share the characteristic.

Admittedly, I am a practical person and do not share the [hyper]sensitivities of some people.

Regards, JEff

YouWantFriesWithThat

There is a little background to this - I suspect the OP is referring a lady who is often called the 'Irritable Chinese Lady'.

To examine whether or not there is racial or ethnic hatred applicable in a phrase, one needs to eaximine the intent of the wording. In this case, the intent is clearly to identify the person being spoken about, and nothing more.

If there were 3 such women at the Embassy, then the usefulness of the original description is lost and something else may be needed to identify her - perhaps age, height, etc. Basically, any other distinguishing features.

The purpose of laws passed to address genuine racial hatred and discrimination against all sorts of groups is often abused by people in society wishing to stir up mischief and making a (flawed) case of discrmination to slur others.

Rete

Deleted my response ... I'm of the wrong generation and do not agree with some of the viewpoints expressed herein.

Michelmas

And do people know for a fact that she is Chinese? Being referred to as such if she were say, South Korean could be equally or more offensive than being called "oriental"

Context people, it's all about context. It's obvious the OP meant no offense. It's all political correctness BS.

As for the poster who linked to the Yahoo answer, I feel sure people would get more offended if they were aware of the derivation of the word limey, yet that seems acceptable to use.

jeffreyhy

And to think that I almost replied to that post with a 'Here Here' and a Hip Hip Hooray' !

Regards, JEff