Re: Oregon incident.
 

I wish someone would wonder into the NRA HQ and start blasting away.

The irony would be soooo delicious!

Re: Oregon incident.
 

I've never understood this argument from the American right (and you). Does the sign at the entrance to a 'gun free zone' suck all the guns out of pockets, bags, holsters etc? Do the laws in 'gun free' cities such as Chicago, New York etc prevent people bringing in guns from elsewhere, maybe via a giant magnet? I'd love to know.

Re: Oregon incident.
 

I heard on BBC radio this morning a Christian pastor telling us that a "man with a good gun" brought the killer down. He was taking the NRA line that we need MORE GUNS.

Re: Oregon incident.
 

That is so not true. There may be a group who are demanding an outright ban but I know many, personally, who are involved in common sense gun laws which Obama speaks of. These are the people - my family - and the people who have become our friends through the shared experience of losing a son or daughter in a mass shooting. We are ordinary people who were living ordinary lives until the 'incident' that affected us changed everything. In every group there are the extremists, but most are simply asking for common sense gun laws.

Re: Oregon incident.
 

How is wanting something approaching an outright ban, the default position for most of the western world, considered extreme?

Re: Oregon incident.
 

I can't tell you the number of people who, after the Aurora shooting, said to me 'If only someone had had a gun and shot him'. So how many someone's would have pulled out a gun aimed and successfully shot the perpetrator in the face of tear gas, confusion, shock, carnage and mayhem? The death toll would have been much higher if a few someone's had pulled out their guns and started shooting into a crowded theater of running people. I don't think most people understand what those situations are really like, and they don't bother to educate themselves either. Fox News feeds them the drama they need without relaying very many facts.

Re: Oregon incident.
 

Apparently he's a British expat. Or was at one time....

Chris Harper Mercer, Oregon college gunman, 'originally from the UK' | US news | The Guardian

Re: Oregon incident.
 

Re: Oregon incident.
 

'Cause given the laws in the US, the Supreme Court, and the Constitution, there is absolutely no way to get there from here.

Re: Oregon incident.
 

What you mean is there is no will or desire to get there from here. It's a fact that the laws, courts and constitution could all be overcome if the overwhelming will to do so existed among the American public.

Re: Oregon incident.
 

Facts About Mental Illness and Violence

Fact 1: The vast majority of people with mental illness are not violent.

Here is what researchers say about the link between mental illness and violence:

- "Although studies suggest a link between mental illnesses and violence, the contribution of people with mental illnesses to overall rates of violence is small, and further, the magnitude of the relationship is greatly exaggerated in the minds of the general population (Institute of Medicine, 2006)."

- "the vast majority of people who are violent do not suffer from mental illnesses (American Psychiatric Association, 1994)."

- "The absolute risk of violence among the mentally ill as a group is very small. . . only a small proportion of the violence in our society can be attributed to persons who are mentally ill (Mulvey, 1994)."

-"People with psychiatric disabilities are far more likely to be victims than perpetrators of violent crime (Appleby, et al., 2001). People with severe mental illnesses, schizophrenia, bipolar disorder or psychosis, are 2 ½ times more likely to be attacked, raped or mugged than the general population (Hiday, et al.,1999)."

Fact 2: The public is misinformed about the link between mental illness and violence.

A longitudinal study of American’s attitudes on mental health between 1950 and 1996 found, “the proportion of Americans who describe mental illness in terms consistent with violent or dangerous behavior nearly doubled.” Also, the vast majority of Americans believe that persons with mental illnesses pose a threat for violence towards others and themselves (Pescosolido, et al., 1996, Pescosolido et al., 1999).

Facts About Mental Illness and Violence - Mental Health Reporting - UW School of Social Work
_______________

This idea that we can make the world perfectly safe for unrestrained gun ownership simply by rounding up the crazies is nonsense. Humans have been violent from the beginning, and guns simply make it easier for us to turn our tendencies toward violence into action.

Re: Oregon incident.
 

This. Every time it happens we are bombarded with sensationalist coverage, and then it all goes away until the next time.

Of course laws and even the constitution could be changed, But they won't. Violence and aggression and individualism are integrated into the country's culture in a way that makes that sort of change very difficult.

Re: Oregon incident.
 

The Heller decision will pose some issues, as it is difficult to overturn Supreme Court precedents.

Then again, Heller was a pretty poorly crafted decision, so it could be overturned with a change in the balance of the Court. But it could be quite a long time before that happens.

The US federal model will make it difficult to change things, because you can bet that the conservative states would thumb their noses at changes in the law. Think of what happened here with the resistance to the end of Jim Crow -- Southern states spent decades fighting it -- and most recently with marijuana, which numerous states have legalized and decriminalized to some degree even though it is illegal at the federal level.

Re: Oregon incident.
 

:goodpost:

Re: Oregon incident.
 

Not quite.

UCC Was Not A 'Gun Free Zone' Because Public Colleges In Oregon Can't Ban Guns | ThinkProgress