robin1234

That's OK

amideislas

The opponent's assertion was that I am considering Spain to be the center of Europe, suggesting that this is the basis of my entire point. But I never said, implied, suggested or in any way mentioned it. That opponent did, however, in an attempt to discredit the point based on that fallacy.

So, what is it that I don't understand again?

kimilseung

There's a strawman waiting in the sky
He'd like to come and meet us
But he thinks he'd blow our minds

zzrmark

I don't think I've been called an 'opponent' since playing chess as a 13 year old - is this good?

I'll just leave this here, inference is something we non-Euro Brits understand:

Source:

FlaviusAetius

The straw man response to a post is the gold standard retort here on BE. Wikipedia has an excellent article on straw man as a rhetorical fallacy and it should be read by all of us.

The straw man poster really discourages honest debate and a full exploration of the issues when one poster's careful argument is subject to one-line ridicule (which happens so often here), an attack on the proponent's intelligence, or an attack on one of the poster's weaker arguments with the implication that the entire post is nonsense.

We should be better than that.

Sally Redux

Set me free, why don't you BE

Hotscot

You often claim your points are deliberately sarcastic when there's not much to indicate that it actually is sarcasm.

Your points are therefore taken at face value.

(And sarcasm doesn't really aid constructive discussion in any case.)

amideislas

Well I've clarified my point ad-nausem, but I'll say it again.

The title reads "more american hypocrisy", suggesting that it's typically American, them goes on to illustrate that it regards states which harbour terrorists as "states which harbour terrorists". That part seems reasonble and its not hard to prove that.

Then it claims that the US is hypocritical because it harbours what the op believes are terrorists in the ops opinion. But the actual specifics aren't clear nor are the circumstances surrounding the alleged terrorists the US allegedly harbours. That part is a bit questionable, especially considering that the US is amongst the least tolerant of such things.

Considering the title, and the vagueness of the accusation, in the end, I cant help but suspect that this is less about the offence as stated, but more likely just another common empty expression of despise for the US, as has been bantered about for a long time.

I thought that fad was waning. But apparently it's still alive and well.

Carry on...

Giantaxe

That is an interesting "leap".

lansbury

Well to give some examples off the top of my head

1) The IRA terrorist who shot and killed PC Steve Tibble in 1975 escaped to the US. Despite attempts to extradite him the US courts held it was a political crime. He stayed in the US completely free for about 14 years.

2) NORAID, which is a US organization, was after Libya the second largest contributor to the IRA, both in cash and weapons. The biggest contributors to NORAID were the people who worked for the NYPD and FDNY.

3) Gerry Adams, the Chief of the IRA Army Council was invited by President Clinton to dinner in the White House.

4) Continued attempts by the British government to have the US government make the IRA and those that supported it illegal organizations in the US, were prior to 9/11/2001 refused.

Mrs Danvers

It's always been a legitimate concern that the U.S. government and particularly the Kennedys were IRA sympathizers prior to 2001.

With regard to despising the USA and the "fad" I do believe you come into the USA forum on a daily basis to scan for and denounce what you view as negativity. It's bloody irritating. Imagine if I went into the Europe forum and noted every concern you had as negativity? Then tell you it must be rubbish in any case as every vacation I've ever had to Spain was marvelous.

Understand that as taxpayers, citizens and people who live here, we are going to question the government that we pay those taxes to and perhaps moan about issues that affect us.

robin1234

The accusation is NOT vague. The US has sponsored and tolerated terrorism. IRA and anti Cuba terrorists are two examples. This includes destruction of a commercial airliner with many lives lost. This has been spelled out in several posts in this thread.

This is the American hipocrisy that this thread is about. Nothing to do with unemployment rates in Spain or any of the other irrelevancies you witter on about.

Giantaxe

Another example is Rep Peter King, who ironically was the chairman of the House Committee on Homeland Security:

Peter T. King - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Lion in Winter

If you think that the U.S. has not sheltered, supported and promoted terrorist acts, then you are naive in the extreme and lacking a large amount of simple historical knowledge. The most cursory glance at the 19th and 20th century history of US activity throughout central and south america would confirm that. Not to mention the mujahidin, created, trained, armed and paid for by the US - and we all know what happened next.

Knee-jerk defence of the American state does a disservice to the large number of American citizens who have worked and in some cases risked their lives to make their country a better place by exposing and attempting to stop some of this activity.

Giantaxe

I would add support for the Contra terrorists in Nicaragua in the mid-80's. Really, it's pretty indisputable that the US has funded and supported terrorism when it's beleived it to be in its interests to do so.