zzrmark

Research not your strong point then or does the UK no longer figure as part of Europe?

Firstly you quote 'if you happen to be educated, black, and living in Europe, you're at least twice as likely to be unemployed' and backing it up with a link that states 'African migrants in Spain are twice as likely to be unemployed compared to people from the majority population' and then give us the 'lies, damned lies and statistics' spiel????
Are all black people African migrants? Is Spain representative of all of Europe?

Speaking for the UK (as I'm not particularly familiar with too many folks names below the positions of PM/president in the EU). Off the top of my head we have Diane Abbott, an MP and commentator on the TV and Paul Boateng, MP - they are not the only people of ethnic descent in a position of respect in the UK!
What kind of position are you talking about? People of colour make up 2% of the UK's population, are you suggesting that we should only vote those of ethnic origin to Parliament? Merit should be the only requirement for a position of respect within any society, the colour of one's skin is absolutely irrelevant... and just what this has to do with state sponsored terrorism beats me

FlaviusAetius

I suppose IF you endorse those views, Amisdeislas might have a point.

robin1234

I'm a bit confused by your point, because first I refer to "naive" Americans who believe the "city on the hill" theme, then I refer to cynical Americans who go for realpolitik...?

Bob

When has that stopped her :/

Hiro11

As an American, how am I supposed to interpret this kind of idiotic blanket statement?

kimilseung

That just seems a bit precious. Its not an unreasonable statement that people with power to label, label things as they want them. Counter examples might help your cause.

amideislas

Well, I was referring to Europe, which the UK may technically be a card-carrying member of, and have a certain proximity to, yet in terms of politics, culture and economics, is about as "European" as Connecticut.

For most Brits, EU membership is more like a Tesco card that enables us to get discounts from, and sell things to the frogs, the krauts and those crazy Italians. It also facilitates us to easily visit or live in sunny spots like Spain.

The UK does not have the same open border policy as Europe - it is not a member of the Schengen, it has it's own currency, banking system, it's own economics, and politically is far more conservative in it's ideology than its "European" counterparts. And you need only take a short peek at current UK politics to see that few really believe they're "European".

In fact, it's a common misnomer that Britain is somehow the "capital" of Europe. For evidence of that, just google "Europe" and it's likely a photo of the tower bridge will show up in the first few results. But really, that's where it ends.

Britain is the capital of Britain, and even Brits don't share much belief they are "European". Like Americans' view, "Europe" is a charming, backward little banana republic to the east, where people speak in funny tongues, eat despicable food, and don't shower or shave.

In contrast, and at the risk of exhibiting blasphemy, if you subscribe to a more "European" view, you'd see Britain as little more than psuedo-Americans pretending to be European. Certainly one can point out significant differences between the UK and the US, but from a macro view, the two share far more commonality than differences, which explains a lot about why the UK has a radically different character, economy and politics than anywhere in Europe.

Now, what does this have to with countries that harbour terrorists being labeled as "states that harbour terrorists"? Nothing at all. But it does point out the hypocrisy of the view that all things undesirable are unique to America ("More American hypocrisy" I believe this thread is entitled). After all, we're above all the stuff that makes those Americans so daft, arrogant - and hypocritical.

Sally Redux

I am British but I understand that Britain has often been ruthless and cynical in its actions. Trying to rewrite history will not solve the current issues around terrorism. After all we are asking Muslims to stop defending Islam.

robin1234

Your straw man asserts "all things undesirable are unique to America." You should recognise that no one but you is saying this. In this thread, or any other thread. This thread, I think, is more or less about the American hypocrisy of harboring terrorists and even allowing American sponsorship of terrorists, (think IRA and Cuban terrorists, for instance) but since 9/11 leading a self defined GWOT.

Hmm.. I tried to sign up for a Tesco card yesterday, but it detected I was in the US and wouldn't let me...

amideislas

Oh, I'm not asserting it, I'm being sarcastic about it.

And, unless you've been hiding in solitude somewhere, the view that these things only happen in America is not exactly unheard of. The irony is that it's all too oft asserted by those who equally - or more - exhibit whatever their latest American stereotype or hypocrisy, which is in itself rather hypocritical. But that only happens in America...

Oh, and it's probably worth pointing out that terrorism is indeed punishable in most of the civilised world. It occurs to me that those perpetrating actual terrorist acts, regardless of their nationality, are demonstrably subject to arrest and prosecution in the US and all over the world. Many, many have been prosecuted and will continue to be - including Americans. I'm not, however, suggesting that all of them get caught or fail to avoid prosecution in some way, or that the system is perfect, clearly it's not.

You can express an opinion that some of the things that any country engages in may qualify as "terrorism", which, as a matter of subjective opinion, could really be anything you want - including "strawman" arguments. But you can't argue whether the universally accepted definition of terrorism is punishable under the law. That alone clearly distinguishes those states who openly harbour those who engage in terrorism with impunity. Cuba demonstrably qualifies for that distinction. It's a simple fact, not hypocrisy.

robin1234

Certainly, there are things that only happen in America. And only some of them happen in Walmart.

FlaviusAetius

I suppose it depends on one's opinion as to who is a terrorist. If, for example, we agree that Hamas and Hezbollah are terrorist organizations, then it logically follows to many that Iran is a supporter of terrorist organizations.

On the other hand, when the President of the US sits down and mercilessly checks off names on a list of people who are to be killed by a drone strike - and that drone strike not only kills the target, but also the family and friends with whom he is celebrating a wedding - then the US is certainly harbouring a terrorist in the White House in the opinion of some people. Should Obama be extradited to the International Criminal Court? There is a body of left-wing activists and a very, very large body of Republicans (perhaps the large majority of them) who think so, and the sooner the better.

zzrmark

OK then, let's forget about a European UK. I suppose Turkey isn't 'black enough' for you?
For the record I actually agreed with your main point BUT I'm not quite yet ready to accept that Spain is the centre of Europe and is the main socio-economic driving force behind it. I haven't got a clue who the prime minister of Spain is but I do know that Erdogan is the Turkish President, maybe I should retune my set to TV Espanola and retrain my brain?

amideislas

Talk about strawman. Oh, sorry, I forgot, >I'm< the one engaging in hypocrisy and strawman arguments. My apologies.

Sally Redux

Yes please do. You don't appear to understand what it means.