DaveLovesDee

Found on Reddit...

Shard

Fascinating clip, thanks. What horrific times and what bravery. Not sure why he was shot by the communists after the war though ?

Derrygal

Exactly!

Lion in Winter

This is a crucial point. Apart from the occasional psychopath who was just born that way (and even psychopaths are often created by their early lives), the Holocaust would not have happened without the explicit actions of many, and implicit consent of many, ordinary people. After all, the Holocaust didn't just pop up one day out thin air. All the history, over years, of putting the nazis into power, the gradual increase of intensity in the campaign against the Jewish people, and the even longer history of people with respect to anti-semitism (either simply accepting it and carrying on with their lives without speaking up or doing anything about it, or eagerly joining in with the more acute expressions of violence), led us to that moment. We have to see that while there may have been a psychopath in charge, in the case of Nazi Germany, that psychopath would have been powerless had it not been for the semi-conscious collaboration of vast numbers of "normal people". If you look at Hitler, or Mengele, or Eichmann, you can think that once they were just babies and little boys, loved by their mums and dads, playing the games that little children play. Human. Later, monsters. And a whole lot of normal people just went along with it.

I have in front of me always the example of a "normal German", friend of my family, who got out of Germany right at the beginning of the war. After a short internment, his father went into SOE and he went into the first Commandos. He used to talk about other Germans who didn't do that, saying that they were just ordinary people who sleepwalked into a situation on the back on inherited cultural prejudices and practices, who didn't wake up in time and then found themselves doing these things as though they, too, were normal. He said that small things can turn into very, very big things if not stamped on right away.

Shard

There is a recent film "Final Account" that explores the views of Germans who participated in the Holocaust. The last remaining Germans. I haven't seen it yet, but hope to soon. No question that there was plenty of complicity.

kimilseung

He continued the struggle, continued fighting, against Stalinism, as he had against Nazism.
It was for these actions after the war that he was sentenced.

Shard

I see, a rebel till the end.

Shard

It's surprising (and troubling) to see that anti-vax protestors have co-opted the yellow star in their campaign. It seems to support the idea that there is a generational shift in attitude/perception of the Holcaust. It must seem like an abstract event to younger people. I recall when I was young WW1 seemed far more abstract than WW2, but with the "benefit" of age they now appear on equal footing.

Anian

The irony of banning a book about the people who banned books.

This is why certain groups of people are against national standards for curriculum is schools. They lose the local power to ban or promote certain ideals, and the kids are worse off for it. Over the last few years they have also been trying to ban mention of slavery under the guise of it being racist. It's no coincidence that these people are trying to pretend that bad things didn't happen in the past, they would do them in the present if they could get away with it.

Shard

Which school boards are trying to ban the mention of slavery ?

robin1234

BristolUK

Cancel culture is real but it’s not the ‘woke mob’ you should worry about
Books deemed anti-church or containing LGBTQ issues are being banned across the US at a terrifying rate by the conservative right

Shard

Have now watched the film "Final Account" mentioned up thread. Very interesting to hear the accounts of former SS and civilians that were involved in the concentration camps. For most there seemed to be a process of indoctrination and social incentives from late childhood, and then once Hitler gained power a genuine fear of persecution if they were to take a moral stand. Not really news, but meaningful to hear it from the Germans of the day and to understand the moral dilemma. Only a couple of former Nazis refused to admit their guilt in the tragedy. I had expected a grim documentary with all the usual horrific imagery, but it was present-day interviews in the homes of perpetrators, which made for a very human account of what happened. On BBC iPlayer.
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Anian

Here's the trick - you can't just come out and say it. Just like how Maus was removed under the pretext of language and nudity, you do the same with slavery. It used to be that books were labelled as "unfair to the south" if they said anything worse than slavery being the kind employment of black folks who really appreciated it, and those books were banned from schools and libraries. These days they ban "critical race theory" and then they can label everything involving racism (including US slavery) as that even if it isn't close. Some states even go as far as making a bounty and fining teachers. Here's a snazzy graphic of states, although the reality isn't as bad as it looks since a lot of the current bills won't succeed.
https://worldpopulationreview.com/st...al-race-theory

kimilseung

In Texas there were plans for a law to prohibit the museum for the Alamo from mentioning anything beyond the battle. So that the issue of slavery and Texas at the time of it's rebellion against Mexico and the slave owners who fought, would not be mentioned. I didn't follow the story, so I don't know if the bill became law.